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“I don’t want to see May 15 as May 9, Victory Day, everyone goes out, we hug, we kiss, I hate! I hate! Joy, because it’s not like that. It’s a stage, a milestone, in the one that part of the measures change “, said Dan Barna in the program” The thoughts of Cristoiu “.
I usually make a special effort, even financial, to transcribe online video interviews with cristoiuTv political leaders. The show airs live every day from 6 to 7 PM. Viewers can ask live questions to the caller (as questions flow from the monitor side to the show me side and the guest side, I am forced to watch from Occasionally on the one hand, risking to appear that I am not paying attention to the sayings of the one in front of me), the recording remains on cristoiublog.ro in video form. However, I think a written version is also needed. You can always make a prepared news source and especially a document for posterity.
Also read: ALERT has passed Parliament: 20 RULES that will affect your daily life, after May 15
During the show with Dan Barna on Monday, May 11, 2020, I began to wonder if it was worth transcribing the live interview. I had Dan Barna as my interlocutor twice in a televised dialogue. Once in the electoral campaign, the second time after the presidential elections. Both in the Gândurile lui Cristoiu program on Mediafax, moderated by Monica Mihai. Every time I had almost completely transcribed for my column on cristoiublog.ro Dan Barna’s answers. And each time I was seduced by the original ideas of the interlocutor in relation to the ideas of the political leaders of the traditional parties. It was clear that Dan Barna was a new party on the country’s political scene, a party that did not get to the rust of routine, to enjoy the Byzantine intrigues of our Moldovan-Valaque formations, which embodied an electorate born and formed from December.
This time, for reasons I miss, maybe because I don’t do chemistry with the man Dan Barna, the interview seemed like a failure of the program. And I thought I wouldn’t make the effort to transcribe it. However, I checked it out to find some more interesting snippets. However, I realized that the interview had a ton of ideas that I had rarely come across in many political leaders with a long post-December tradition. And I concluded that the video interview is worth the effort of a transcription of the column The Thoughts of Christ.
SME Invest: a program designed for the dead
Ion Cristoiu: Mr. President, before the show I received a sign saying “Mr. President is in plenary.” What plenary were you in?
Dan Barna: Until now I have been in “The Minister’s Hour”. The USR invited the Minister of Health, Mr. Tataru, to present the state of the health system to Parliament. The hearing is still ongoing. My colleagues just chimed in, I saw them and then I went into this interview. It’s an interesting thing. After years of explaining to us that Parliament can’t work online, committees can’t work online, you see, God, MPs couldn’t work from a tablet, this coronavirus crisis has made It is also possible to listen to some ministers in the plenary session of Parliament. A virtual plenum, obviously, from the tablet.
Ion Cristoiu: I have 36 video interviews so far, with this 37. I must point out that you are among the best illustrated in terms of image. You have a special room, right?
Dan Barna: No, it’s the camera frame. But it is surprising that the image is good because in a previous life they reproached me for being very bad and buying a professional.
Ion Cristoiu: I have a professional, that’s why I said, and I admire that you have a good camera. It seems that today there was a simple motion against Mr. Cîţu. I hoped you were with her. Today is?
Dan Barna: Today is not the vote. Today only the motion is read. It is my colleagues from the economics area, Claudiu Năsui, my colleague Cosette Chichirău, who will also have speeches. There will be a vote on Wednesday and I will probably attend.
Ion Cristoiu: You published today in relation to this anti-Cîţu motion that you will not vote and motivated, because it is initiated by PSD, but you still had some observations in the government’s NLP economic recovery program. At one point you said, I quote: “SME Invest is a very good program but it was born dead.” If you want to believe me, I’m not good at economics. So I don’t understand the program, it’s not beautiful, it’s not dead. If you want to explain it to us.
Dan Barna: It is a program that was intended to function as a financial support tool for companies during this period. In the developed world, or rather, more or less economically developed, such instruments were created by the state precisely to avoid a crisis similar to that of 2008. The solution this time is not necessarily in the area of austerity, but in the area of injecting money into the economy so that the industry and the economy remain functional, even in low heat, so that after the crisis is over they do not start from the bottom of the garden, to use a metaphor, but to start from a survival level . Basically, this program was designed as such, only from the day it was launched was it blocked. So I say he thought he was dead. Banks do not yet have instructions and information to be able to grant these operating loans to companies. The program was considered an impulse to help companies, but it is not well established in terms of professional competence, it was obviously blocked from the first moment. And that is one of the broader issues related to the thinness of the current government’s economic support measures.
Ion Cristoiu: During this period there were observations that you, especially USR, were not so vocal, so critical. Why? Was it a consciously appropriate policy or did he not have a way of expressing himself?
Dan Barna: Well, there are several elements to consider. On the one hand, a program that allocates financial resources to the press did significantly, I do not know if it is a coincidence or not, I do not comment, the invitations I received from the conventional press almost completely disappear. This as a form of expression. Otherwise, as a party position, I would not say that we were not critical or that we did not speak about the current problems, but we said from the beginning that the position of the USR in Parliament is a responsible position. We cannot enter into the logic of the scandalous populism practiced by the PSD, which considers the country’s budget as a bottomless bag from which resources can be wasted in all directions. But we were also very consistent in pointing out when the government was wrong. It is a time of crisis, neither we nor other states, perhaps even more, have experience with this type of pandemic or epidemic. The last major one was in 1918, so outside of the generations that now run the country and from this perspective there is an understanding that the government is experimenting. Beyond that, the measures we proposed and talked about, for example, the elimination of the tax on the first lei of income of 2000, only to leave some money to the employees, employees, thus maintaining such consumption and consumption capacity functional as possible and helping as much as the economy, they were ignored. We also proposed the measure by which those who work in senior centers should be treated as medical personnel. Precisely because the area of vulnerability is known, the area where there are older people, because they are the target group of this epidemic. So there are also very clear political positions, some of them criticizing the government. Today, at this time, while we are talking, the Minister of Health is invited to the USR by Parliament, or summoned by the USR, precisely to present the problems that the system has. And he gave explanations about these problems. I would not say, and in any case I do not share the idea, that USR stood up and applauded the NLP government, because that was not the case. Both in the economic area and in the medical area we have constant communications and constant positions in this direction.
I don’t want to see May 15 as May 9, Victory Day
Ion Cristoiu: You are right. I looked at your speech, the online speeches. Sometimes you’ve been even more critical than the PSD of some things the government has done. The impression probably stemmed from the fact that you didn’t appear, and I don’t think so, because of you, on television. Did it seem normal for government people to dominate public communication in these two months?
Dan Barna: This is a real discussion in the public space, whether the measure, that Ordinance, by which Prime Minister Orban and the government allocated to the media area a few million, some good resources, whether or not they have an impact. And I asked the Prime Minister himself that question. I mean, I didn’t just pose the problem. He claims that he did not ask any trusted medium or beneficiary of such resources to favor the government. But there is that subtle reflection of natural self-censorship that is favorable to those who give it financial resources. And who pays you. And I think that we are in such a situation that reflexively, when a measure of financial support from the media areas appears, obviously the government will suddenly become much more popular in appearance and presence.
Ion Cristoiu: I agree, Mr. President, as a journalist I have 52 years of activity. I tell you this, to tell the viewers, that when he takes pity on you, it doesn’t have to be a contract, as people think, that is, a contract: they give me the money, I praise them. But it comes like this, a kind of shame, the man gave you money, the government gave you money, and you have, on top, a moral self-censorship, that is, you say “but the man was fine with me, I don’t know , he gave me a bouquet of flowers, money and now I swear “. I was saying in the following sense: it is for the first time in the history of Romania when we had a state of emergency. If we were to re-live this experience, what do you think we should correct: we, the Romanians, the political class? Did you find, for example, an imbalance between Power and Opposition in public space?
Dan Barna: First of all, a state of emergency presupposes an exercise of community solidarity. And the fact that Romania has, I do not know if it is correct, the results or effects of the crisis lower than in other states is largely due to the responsibility of our fellow citizens. In other words, the fact that the vast majority of people, with few exceptions, and I repeat with few exceptions, understood how important social distancing is, understood how important it is to respect these hygiene measures, made us have a long extension minor epidemic and that’s a very good thing, by the way, on May 15 and what’s going to happen. As I do not want to see May 15 as May 9, Victory Day, everyone goes out, we hug, we kiss, I hate! Hate !, joy, because it is not like that. It is, as I said the other day, a stage, a milestone, in which part of the measures change. And you should wear a mask, gloves, wash your hands, avoid unnecessary contact, avoid going out when not required. Because the reality is that this epidemic is among us, we must live with it, get used to it and what is at stake is not to reach a peak of the epidemic that makes the medical system unable to react.
And back to your question, what could have worked differently or better?
It is precisely this ability to truly communicate and communicate transparently with citizens. Because at the moment we still don’t know why Suceava has become an example of very bad medical system practice, although this has happened in perhaps the best hospital because endowments and investments and standards claim to exist in a county hospital. I’m not necessarily talking about those in Bucharest, but in the rest of the country. In Suceava we were presented with the pearl of the medical crown and this is exactly where we have a Lombardy from Romania. Or that is a problem. The other problem is these conflicting messages from the government. One says a minister, another says the health minister, another says the finance minister, the prime minister says something else, or the president comes and says something different from what the interior minister said. All these constant rumors only make citizens suspicious that the situation is really being handled. And the fact that we have results, let’s call them better than other countries, is largely due to the responsibility of citizens.
Ion Cristoiu: Mr. President, I was not referring to the results in terms of health, but to a problem that also worries many in the western world. Is there not a risk that after this danger that justifies the limitation of some human rights, certain more or less autocratic exercises will be born, the flavor of autocracy appears in Europe and Romania, not to mention the dictatorship?
Dan Barna: I couldn’t believe how things look right now. Although this is an interesting question because we tend to believe that it is a level of democracy. This is exactly what the PSD showed us, believing that if we are at a certain level, things can only go linearly or better.
Ion Cristoiu: Correct.
Dan Barna: It is another explanation that I have of what happened in the 2016 elections and in the entire government of Liviu Dragnea. The fact that during the government of Dacian Cioloş, which was one of the best and most decent governments that Romania had, people thought “Come on, it’s good, here comes the PSD with some measures, come on -Okay, it can only be Better, let’s go to Europe, he breathed, we felt we were working, the economy has started to move. ” We did not go to the polls and things were only seen in an electoral result, and we ended up going out. I think it is the same now. In fact, we must defend our democracy and defend the operation of the rule of law and the democratic operation of the state every day and at all events. This morning I had a discussion with Prime Minister Orban in which he said that he would send the law to Parliament, this one for crisis measures, the new measures, after May 15. It is natural for this to happen and, for now, precisely through the experience of recent years, I believe that we have enough energy in society not to fall into an area of dictatorial autocracy.
USR: a party that brings fresh air to politics
Ion Cristoiu: Yes, I saw at one point, during the state of emergency, you insisted on a dialogue, I can also quote you, between parties, government, parliament, presidency, why? Does it not contradict the radicalism of your electorate? How to dialogue with the other parties?
Dan Barna: I agree that some of those who support me and support the USR and the USR-PLUS Alliance are more radical in their points of view, but I think it is precisely my duty as party leader, and the duty of my Colleagues in Let’s not allow the National Office to make USR a radical party. The RSU must be a party that brings modernity, a party that brings fresh air to politics, understanding that it takes more than strictly our electorate to be able to change these things in Romania. And the solution is, I repeat, in dialogue, the one that we promoted and related to the situation between Parliament and the government. Because, let’s see what is happening now, or the last days. It is a competition to make laws and ordinances between the government and Parliament. And, in fact, instead of wondering what measures we can take to improve or better face the crisis, it is actually a competition for legislation. This is very damaging. Because the government comes with some ordinances, which does not argue with anyone. Obviously after that, in Parliament, the PSD takes them, fills them with all the populist nonsense. Obviously, after that, they are attacked in the CCR or returned by the president. And instead of moving, as a political class, and taking action, in fact, we are just hindering ourselves. And that is why I say that the need for dialogue is a reality beyond political visions and points of view.
If we look at the messages, the PNL and the president are in an electoral logic
Ion Cristoiu: Yes. Probably in the next period we will have a confrontation between the NLP government that must be forced, there is no way, life will force it, some austerity measures, I think you agree, and on the other hand , the PSD parliamentary majority that I have seen pump, gives money to the right and to the left, because she cannot afford it. How do you think it will be resolved? In other words, will the PNL at some point yield to populist pressure for electoral reasons, or will it say “I can lose the elections but I will not give in to this pressure”?
Dan Barna: If we look at the messages, both the PNL and the president have an electoral logic. That parenthesis of the 90s with the sale of Transilvania to the Hungarians was a strictly electoral message. Everyone understood that it was just that. Beyond that, however, I tell you from the USR how things look, it seems to me that this crisis can be, and should be, an opportunity for the country’s budgetary and political responsibility. The moment we throw the country into an uncontrolled deficit and enter an inflation spiral in which all the efforts that we have made for some years as a country, this, let me call it economic growth, are discarded. , which existed before the crisis, did not happen. It happened because the private sector really shot a lot in this country. And if the measures will be, if the PNL yields and enters an area of populism of this outbreak, which the PSD is pressing from Parliament, we will only return. It was a very good metaphor, which was actually used in Justice by a European Union commissioner who said: “You Romanians are very interesting. You ran so much in this marathon with justice, you entered the stadium, you are on the last lap and when you got close to the finish line you stopped, turned around and started running in reverse ”. This is what would happen financially if we gave in to the measures. And the USR will clearly oppose such populist measures that would destroy budget stability. This is a very big bet in terms of what will happen after the crisis.
Ion Cristoiu: You had a discussion with Mr. Orban about this alert bill. Do you vote for him? Are you making amendments? I also saw. Have you noticed now or not?
Dan Barna: There are several elements in the area of tourism, in the area of possibilities that must be given to the economic environment. Because here is a very clear message and that is what I said to the Prime Minister at every meeting I had. The fact that until the end it seems that only the economic environment pays the bill, the private sector pays the bill for the crisis is somewhat unfair and is scandalous. In fact, in the end, we will all pay this bill. The weakening and destructuring of the economic environment as a result of this crisis will only affect the entire population and the entire society. That is very clear. Let us not forget that the Prime Minister has also promised to bear the costs of the crisis in the public sector. This did not happen. They gave up on that plan and that is an injustice, because the economic environment has yet to pay the bill. And then, about the measures that must be taken after 15 and what is being considered, I have a lot of confidence, I say this from personal experience in my period before politics, regarding the ability of the economic environment and entrepreneurs to adapt to requirements and regulations. To this creativity to develop your business legitimately and legally. So the measures instead of the total closure of some sectors would be measures that say “to function it has to do it.” And, for example, a terrace that used to have 30 tables can now work with 10 tables. Or an accommodation to have five rooms instead of 20 rented on the landing. Simply giving some limitations to respect the social distance would probably be much easier and for many economic agents it would be much easier to resume their activity and re-enter a functionality. When you don’t have a chance, then you have a problem. When they say “of course you can work but with these limitations”, a part, and I think that a significant part of the economic agents, could adapt to these restrictions related to public health and respect them in order to function, be able to pay wages, be able have economic activity. (…)
Ion Cristoiu: So I understand that you will vote for the law in Parliament.
Dan Barna: good. It is definitely a necessary invoice, but you have a time problem. I should have come earlier. Assuming it would make it to the Plenary on Wednesday and we would vote for it, then we would go to the President for enactment, it could probably go into effect on Monday as soon as possible, which would mean that we risk having a weekend with a regulatory gap. . And that could be a problem. I mean, this law should have come earlier. Because the state of emergency ends on Friday, under current terms it is very difficult for this law to enter into force on Friday, or rather, Saturday morning. And then we will have a weekend when there is no regulation about it.
Romania will not become Switzerland in four years. But we need to start taking steps forward
Ion Cristoiu: For the French, the Prime Minister went to the Senate, although he was not obliged, and presented the plan for a relaunch in stages. This law is not the plan, is it?
Dan Barna: This is one of the criticisms we make of the government. Beyond the daily administration and reactions “There are no masks, let’s buy masks, let’s buy overalls, let’s wear more fans, let’s increase the testing capacity”, beyond that, what Romania expects is a plan for the next weeks and months. This plan does not exist. If I say with tact that he has marked here and there, he has put a patch on a bruise, on a wound, in reality everyone shrugs at the strategy. In fact, this is the big problem when we talk about Romania’s business environment and economic outlook. The fact that there are very few measures with a broader vision and perspective, so that people know how to plan, use a term from my area, from Sibiu, how to plan their business life. And just at the end of this week, somewhere on Friday, we will present a series of measures that USR considers necessary, such as a strategic plan in the coming period. We are working on this precisely to find concrete solutions and data, with solutions that the government could assume.
Ion Cristoiu: What fundamental change could or what benefit could Romania have from this crisis? I mean, what should we change strategically, not tactically, that we are going to the hair salon tomorrow and the day after tomorrow for styling? Give me a point of view. Should we develop agriculture?
Dan Barna: We don’t have to invent hot water. Basically, the solution is to choose some very clear areas in which to invest, in which to allocate your own resources depending on the competition and, at that time, the respective areas, if you have chosen them correctly, and here we have some fairly clear examples : They will start generating development for you. And I say this because we have always defended the need to invest in the large superstructure. Doing them is not talking about them. Because just this morning, for example, my fellow MEP Ionuţ Moşteanu, MEP from Argeş, who is on the transport committee, was prohibited from participating in the prefecture, when signing the contract for section 1 of the road, working on the field and specialize in this matter. NLP wanted to be just an exclusive NLP event, which is stupid because we are talking about strategy. The strategy means assuming that you invest money in infrastructure, because infrastructure is like a human circulatory system, and then develops all other support services. You have tens of thousands of workers building roads, building regional hospitals. Those people have to eat, they have to sleep, they have to get dressed. Suddenly, you create an area of employment and growth where I don’t know if we need to bring people from Vietnam, and from India and China. But chances are we can bring Romanians working in construction, right now, in Western Europe. Because last year in the presidential campaign I visited several countries, I was the candidate who even made an electoral tour. I was in every county, I was in Europe, in many states, and I talked to the Romanian workers who left, some with their families, others alone. And 90% of them told me that they would return home, even with a slightly lower income that would allow them to take their children to school and have a decent life, and that is to speak of economic measures, which would be the solution, if it were work and if it were work, not only to renovate a villa, but also a great infrastructure works. Going back now, to finish this line of strategy: you choose some areas: large infrastructure, IT, specific agricultural sectors. Because in our country, I don’t know if you have noticed, something almost fun, once every two or three years the priority changes. In a year, the pig is a priority, then another minister came and said, “Lord, the sheep, let’s go to the sheep.” The fact that priorities change as Voda passes through the ministry lobby is something that shows that we do not have a strategy. When you have 4 to 5 addresses to invest, and you as a country to allocate resources, you will be pleasantly surprised to see that it produces value in your Gross Domestic Product, generating jobs for you. Romania is today one of the relevant countries in the IT industry. That was because there was a little bit of strategy there. And a little strategy, here are some results. Well, if we take a similar strategy in four or five other areas, we could probably take some important steps as a country. That is what I said, and that is the USR position and the position of the USR-PLUS alliance.
Romania will not become Switzerland in four years. But we need to start taking steps forward. As long as we don’t start taking real exams in the administration and do that administrative reform, which is exactly what it means to take real exams, don’t put your brothers-in-law, relatives, lovers, mothers-in-law and cousins in public office. Because what happened in this crisis showed that in many places where it was strictly related to nepotism, those institutions did not work.
Ion Cristoiu: DSP, addresses.
Dan Barna: The DSP was obvious.
Ion Cristoiu: I did not explain that, in fact, they belonged to the parties, when they came to power in the DSP they put in, it was not a nuisance.
Dan Barna: The headache was a chickenpox attack in a kindergarten, a major problem. When I had the epidemic, I saw embarrassing situations. Do you remember that lady, I don’t know, Timisoara, or I don’t know where she was from, did you feel sorry for her? And well, it wasn’t a one-time case. People who clearly had no precedence, no ability, no ability to be in those positions.
Why did Dan Barna cut his hair?
Ion Cristoiu: Towards the end of the crisis, we saw a desperation in the West to bring in Romanian workers, at any cost, and those with studs, and those in Austria. Does the fact that the West can no longer live without Romanian seasonal workers make you proud to be Romanian?
Dan Barna: I don’t know if it’s an element of pride or …
Ion Cristoiu: I just asked. That maybe some, I don’t know, are proud. It is a phenomenon, it must be admitted, that they cannot live without us, without our workers.
Dan Barna: I do not think it is a pride that after 30 years of the old, more or less post-communist political class, we as a country do not have the capacity to keep our workforce active here. And people find themselves in desperate, embarrassing, and painful situations to crowd, as we saw in Cluj, to crowd at the airport and leave for various seasonal jobs. What happened there actually shows that, to a large extent, there were a few years when we failed in what Romania’s well-being means. Faptul că 50% dintre tineri continuă să plece din ţară astăzi, într-o perioadă în care România e pe creştere economică – nu vorbesc de cele două luni de criză, trei, vorbesc de situaţia generală -, arată că trebuie să faceă . Trei trebuie să facem o schimbare majoră semnificativă şi asumată. Vechiul titirez în care schimbăm partidele din USL şi aşteptăm să se întîmple minuni n-are cum să mai funcţioneze, pentru că ne pleacă tinerii şi în 20 de ani o să ne trezim că sîntem o ţară de tranzit
Ion Cristoiu: Pe dumneavoastră, nu vă surprinde faptul că Occidentul, cetăţenii occidentali nu mai vor să muncească la sparanghel? Adică ei de ce n-ar munci la sparanghel? De ce sparanghelul trebuie cules de români şi nu de nemţi?
Dan Barna: And interesting. Dar asta se întîmplă pentru că societăţile respective au reuşit să ajungă la un nivel în care generează locuri de muncă, bunăstare în sens larg, de un nivel peste culesul de sparanghel. Şi atunci acum soluţia este că vin românii şi le adună sparanghelul.
Ion Cristoiu: Poate găsesc roboţi care le va culege sparanghelul.
Dan Barna: Se va ajunge fără îndoială şi acolo. Pasul următor va fi, după ce o să reuşim să ne dezvoltăm şi noi ca ţară, ca şi în România să vină culegători din zone mai estice.
Ion Cristoiu: Pînă s-o termina planeta.
Dan Barna: Nu, pînă se va dezvolta suficient sau pînă cum spuneţi o se ne conducă roboţii.
Ion Cristoiu: Ca să facem aşa o paranteză de culoare, o ştire extraordinară a fost faptul că dumneavoastră v-aţi tuns. Şi chiar vă invidiez că sînteţi tuns zero. De ce zero?
Dan Barna: În fiecare vară de ani de zile, din facultate, în timpul vacanţei vara obişnuiam să mă rad în cap, anul trecut n-a fost posibil pentru c-a fost campania electorală pentru prezidenţiale şi echipa de campanie mi-a interzis acest lucru.
Ion Cristoiu: Asta e o ştire, cum adică? Echipa de campanie îţi spune cum să te tunzi? Ce motivare a avut electorală? Iertaţi-mă, ce-a zis că dă prost la electorat sau ce?
Dan Barna: Nu, a fost mult mai simplu. Mi-au zis că dacă mă rad în cap ei se vor retrage din susţinerea campaniei mele. A fost mult mai simplă abordarea.
Ion Cristoiu: Chiar n-am auzit pînă acum.
Dan Barna: Acum stînd în casă de atîtea săptămîni am zis că e o perioadă foarte bună şi am recuperat tura de ras în cap. M-am ras în cap. A fost foarte simplu.
Ion Cristoiu: Apropo spuneţi-mi din campania electorală. Cît de marionetă e candidatul în mîinile consilierilor?
Dan Barna: În cazul meu chiar n-a fost, sau dacă întrebarea vrea să fie dacă dau vina pe consilierii…
Ion Cristoiu: Nu, nu. E o realitate şi politicieni în general foarte multe lucruri nu le fac că vor ei ci ce le spun consilierii, sînteţi de acord cu asta.
Dan Barna: Noi fiind încă un partid tînăr şi foarte real şi foarte din societate şi din viaţa reală fiecare decizie am luat-o la propriu împreună, am făcut doar lucrurile pe care le-am considerat. Au fost foarte multe lucruri pe care ni le-au sugerat şi pe care nu le-am făcut pentru că n-am simţit eu în ficat că sînt necesare sau că aş vrea să le fac. Au fost şi lucruri pe care le-am făcut de capul meu, unele au ieşit bine, unele prost.
A fost o echipă excelentă căreia îi mulţumesc pentru sprijin şi implicare şi asumare. Pentru că, de la colegii care au fost cu mine în autocar pînă la cei care au stat şi-au scris, fiecare frîntură de comunicat sau au creat bucăţele de film, au fost nişte oameni care au crezut în campania aceea. Şi cred că ăsta e lucru cel mai frumos, indiferent dacă cîştigi sau pierzi într-un demers să crezi în el atunci cînd îl faci. Colegilor mei le mulţumesc şi voluntarilor, şi colegilor din USR şi din PLUS care au făcut o companie într-adevăr, din punctul meu de vedere cel puţin, memorabilă.
O să treacă şi această Criză. Şi-o să ne întoarcem la toate nimicniciile noastre
Ion Cristoiu: Partidele politice, politicienii au intrat în starea de urgenţă într-un fel, au ieşit altfel? Vor ieşi altfel sau va fi acelaşi capital politic, aceleaşi partide, aceiaşi politicieni? S-au ivit în perioada asta noi politicieni?
Dan Barna: Şi binele şi răul se uită. Eu cred că vom reveni… Bine, acum poate ar fi frumos să dau un mesaj, să spun că este o mare iubire generală cu toate partidele. Sînt pragmatic şi realist. În fine, aveam în copilărie o carte care spunea „cu dragostea şi focul te obişnuieşti”. O să treacă această criză şi o să fie, probabil peste un an, doi, „mai ştii cum era la criză?”. Dar ne vom întoarce tot la nimicniciile, şi la bunele şi relele noastre, la ideile inspirate care dau rezultate, la tîmpeniile care ne fac de rîs. Nu cred că se va schimba umanitatea, că se va schimba dramatic. Dincolo de aceste reflexe, şi poate ăsta e un lucru cu adevărat bun, aceste reflexe de igienă personală care s-ar putea să ne fie de folos pe termen lung, dincolo de strict această epidemie.
Ion Cristoiu: Partidul dumneavoastră fiind un partid online a avut activitate în timpul Crizei. Am văzut aţi avut o viaţă politică normală. La un moment dat postaţi că felicitaţi nişte membri ai conducerii, la tineret. Aţi avut alegeri în perioada asta?
Dan Barna: Da, am fost la ultimul Comitet Politic, şi anterior s-a organizat. USR Tineret a avut o perioadă în care şi-a ales noua conducere. I-am felicitat, i-am încurajat pentru că speranţa vine întotdeauna de la tineri. Ei sînt în organizaţia noastră o bucată importantă de speranţă şi normal.
Ion Cristoiu: Vreau să spun celelalte partide credeţi că se vor apleca mai mult asupra acestui spaţiu – reţelele sociale, online – după această experienţă?
Dan Barna: Noi ca ţară trebuie să ne aplecăm. Sînt multe concluzii interesante apropo de perioada aceasta pentru că şi în mediul de business, şi în mediu privat, şi în mediul public s-a dovedit că anumite servicii pot să funcţioneze foarte bine online. S-a dovedit că nu e necesar să aduci pensionarii, şi nu numai pensionarii, la coadă la Administraţia Financiară ca să-şi ia un certificat fiscal, sau o adeverinţă sau să plătească un impozit, sau toate celelalte. Lucrurile acestea se pot întîmpla comod, confortabil de acasă. Şi cred că e un stimulent pentru cei care conduc aceste instituţii publice să introducă pe logică de permanenţă serviciile acestea online digitalizate. Gîndiţi-vă, că am vîndut acum nişte timp o maşină. Am stat la coadă dimineaţa la 7 ca să pună două ştampile, ca să-i dau noului cumpărător talonul şi toate celelalte certificate fiscale, şi ce era necesar. Toate astea pot să funcţioneze online. Cred că această criză tocmai ne-a arătat că se poate şi nu e un capăt de ţară. Şi oricine poate să înţeleagă lucrurile acestea.
Ion Cristoiu: Credeţi că va fi şi un progres în telemuncă? Multe firme vor renunţa la venirea la serviciu?
Dan Barna: Aicea sînt două planuri. O dată, revenirea din criză pentru o parte din agenţii economici, nu puţini, presupune faptul că în lunile următoare nu vor avea încărcătura necesară pentru angajaţi, pentru norme de opt ore. Pe de altă parte telemunca pentru o altă parte din structurile unor companii şi servicii s-a dovedit şi probabil că va fi implementată ca o alternativă funcţională. Noi vom avea – vă spuneam de pachetul de măsuri pe care-l vom lansa la finalul săptămînii – cîteva propuneri în linia aceasta. Că despre asta vorbim, de variante flexibile de prestare a muncii, fie că vorbim de telemuncă, fie că vorbim de norme parţiale, fie că vorbim de diverse alte instrumente pe care le folosesc. Eu am văzut în Germania mecanismul acesta cu norma parţială şi cu sprijin de stat în perioade dificile. E chiar un exemplu de succes. Ar trebui preluat şi la noi, lucrăm la proiecte de lege în direcţia aceasta tocmai pentru că trebuie să începem să folosim practica din Vest şi practica europeană şi practica internaţională pe astfel de servicii. Dacă vrem să vorbim, apropo de strategie, să vorbim de economie în care oamenii să simtă stimulentul că pot să funcţioneze în economia din România, şi nu în economia din Germania, Spania sau Italia.
Este clar că trebuie să ne educăm copiii pentru o lume digitală
Ion Cristoiu: Credeţi că şcoala online a prins. Aveţi încredere în această şcoală on line?
Dan Barna: Ar putea să prindă. Aici problema este de altă natură. Problema ţine de infrastructura de acces la internet. Pentru că ne-am uitat pe proiectele pe care le finanţează acum ministerul Dezvoltării, ministerul Fondurilor Europene pe ceea ce înseamnă zona de educaţie. Şi sînt din păcate o parte dintre ele, o parte semnificativă – vorbim de 50 de milioane de euro, nu de doi lei – sunt proiecte mai degrabă de birocratism educaţional. Adică este foarte frumos să faci un registru online al serviciilor educaţionale disponibile, şi alte lucruri necesare la un anumit moment înainte de criză, o parte chiar relevante, dar în momentul de faţă în care ai 62% dintre elevi care nu au un acces real la internet despre ce vorbeşti. Adică ce şcoală online dacă, de fapt, doar în marile oraşe copiii au acces la o tabletă, la un laptop conectat la internet astfel încît să poată să-şi vadă dascălul, să poată într-adevăr să facă teme. Avem şi noi în USR doamne profesoare care fac lucru acesta, şi e lăudabil, şi copiii sînt implicaţi şi sînt încîntaţi. E o tehnologie alternativă, e frumos, dar acoperirea e foarte slabă deocamdată.
Ion Cristoiu: Dar dintre interlocutorii mei au spus că ar trebui totuşi cînd se va reveni la şcoală, păstrată măcar o zi pe săptămînă de experienţă online. Credeţi o zi, o oră?
Dan Barna: Ar putea să fie o componentă, fără îndoială, o componentă de intereacţiune, vinerea sau poate o zi. O oră nu prea are sens, adică ori o zi ori o perioadă aşa o lună, o săptămînă, cîndva, la un moment dat. Este clar că trebuie să ne educăm copiii pentru o lume digitală. Mulţi dintre ei, cei care au resurse, că asta e important, acum sînt pianişti pe telefonul mobil sau pe laptop sau pe tabletă. Da, dar asta sîntem în logica oamenilor din marile oraşe.
Ion Cristoiu: Da, corect.
Dan Barna: În urbanul mic sau în mediu rural, în care familia este cu un telefon sau două, şi copilul de fapt n-are acces la internet tot timpul, lucrurile stau foarte diferit. Şi dacă nu vrem să avem o fractură în societate între unii alfabetizaţi digital, şi unii care habar n-au, trebuie ca şcoala să furnizeze inclusiv acest serviciu de educaţie digitală, să-i spun larg, de învăţămînt online.
Ion Cristoiu: Domnule preşedinte, parcă aţi fi de la un partid de Stînga.
Dan Barna: Nu. Economia se dezvoltă. Şi se dezvoltă şi Centrul-Dreapta modern. Iar aceasta presupune tocmai această încurajare a competenţei şi încurajarea valorii. Asta se întîmplă dacă există instrumente, dacă tineri, copiii în sens larg, pot să-şi dea măsura valorii. Despre asta spun şi tocmai asta este una dintre direcţiile noastre.
Ion Cristoiu: Şi în perioada asta nu prea am auzit de PLUS, ce s-a întîmplat cu ei? E totuşi o diferenţă. Dumneavoastră, USR, aţi fost foarte activ. Domnul Cioloş nu prea. De ce?
Dan Barna: N-aş spune. Şi colegii de la PLUS au avut mesaje şi reacţii în această perioadă, au comunicat şi în spaţiul public. Obiectivul şi miza este însă aceea ca proiectul Alianţei să devină în perspectiva electorală şi a alegerilor locale şi alegerilor naţionale acea alternativă în care România are încredere. În această perioadă am fost în întîlniri de dimineaţă pînă seara. Am folosit această perioadă tocmai pentru a lucra împreună cu Dacian Cioloş la acest proiect, şi împreună cu colegii mei din USR şi PLUS, tocmai pentru că avem alegerile locale în faţă şi e o miză.
Ion Cristoiu: Cînd le vedeţi puse?
Dan Barna: Depinde foarte mult ce se întîmplă cu virusul, cu epidemia. Foarte probabil final de septembrie, început de octombrie ar putea să fie o perioadă pe datele actuale în care să aibă loc aceste alegeri locale. Iar Parlamentarele vor fi evident undeva în luna decembrie, pe Constituţie şi pe date. Să ne amintim că au fost pe 11 decembrie data trecută alegerile, deci tot în zona aceea ar trebui să fie. Totul însă în contextul în care epidemia rămîne sub control. De asta fac apelul acesta la responsabilitate, la purtat măşti, la purtat mănuşi, la rămas în logică de protecţie individuală fiecare. Dacă ne scapă de sub control epidemia şi avem situaţii dramatice ca în alte state europene mari, subiectul alegerilor s-ar putea să nu mai fie, să trebuiască modificat.
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USL e cea mai bună etichetă a vechii clase politice care funcţiona prin rotaţie: stai tu o tură, stau e o tură
Ion Cristoiu: Înainte de criză ne pregăteam de anticipate, aproape că erau inevitabile, anticipate care plecau de la premisa unei victorii zdrobitoare a Dreptei. Criza a schimbat ceva? A amînat căderea PSD-ului, a micşorat şansele Dreptei, ale PNL, le-a crescut pe ale dumneavoastră? Adică a schimbat ceva, nu în umanitate, în scena politică această perioadă de două luni? Sau ne vom întoarce la situaţia de dinainte de criză?
Dan Barna: Dacă înainte de criză vorbeam de anticipate acum există perspectiva posticipatelor, care să fie duse şi mai încolo. Dincolo de asta depinde foarte mult de ce se va întîmpla pe plan economic în lunile următoare. Pentru că aceste două luni au fost cumva ca o măciucă în cap. Eşti un pic buimăcit, acum începi să-ţi revii. Oamenii au intrat într-o logică în care acceptăm că epidemia aceasta va trebui să coabităm cu ea o perioadă mai lungă, va trebui să ne adaptăm reacţiile şi modalitatea de a funcţiona la această epidemie. Şi din perspectiva asta ce se va întîmpla economic în lunile următoare va fi definitoriu pentru perspectivele electorale din toamnă la locale şi din iarnă, eventual, la parlamentare. E greu de spus în momentul acesta care e impactul crizei pe contextul electoral, din punctul meu de vedere cel puţin. Pentru că oamenii abia se dezmeticesc. În sens larg vorbesc societatea, comunitatea, abia se dezmeticeşte după această criză care a venit destul de… Mă rog pentru cei mai înţelepţi a fost previzibilă, pentru marea majoritate a fost o surpriză deşi ar fi trebuit să ştim şi noi, şi restul Europei că lucrurile vor evolua în felul acesta.
Ion Cristoiu: Din acest punct de vedere, evocînd posibilitatea ca partidul de la guvernare să se erodeze, voturile se vor duce spre dumneavoastră sau spre PSD?
Dan Barna: Eu sînt foarte optimist în ceea ce înseamnă înţelepciunea electoratului. Pentru că avem de 30 de ani o aceeaşi secvenţă rotită şi reşapată. Avem o structură. USL e cea mai bună etichetă a vechii clase politice care funcţiona prin rotaţie: stai tu o tură, stau e o tură. În momentul de faţă, din 2016 încoace există o alternativă. Ea se numeşte USR. Şi din urmă cu un an se numeşte Alianţa USR-PLUS. Această alternativă are nişte principii, nişte valori şi nişte oameni atipici pentru ceea ce înseamnă vechea clasă politică şi asta e o realitate pe care o vedem cu toţii. Chiar dacă uneori am fost criticaţi, chiar dacă mie şi lui Dacian Cioloş ni s-au reproşat diverse lucruri, în realitate vorbim de un nivel de încredere şi de seriozitate şi de a-ţi păsa de ceea ce înseamnă România, lucruri pe care electoratul le va aprecia şi sunt foarte optimist că USR-PLUS va fi brandul cîştigător al următoarelor runde electorale. Pentru că România trebuie să se mişte mai departe, trebuie să mergem mai departe. Ori ofertele pe spectrul politic actual sînt în aceeaşi logică în care ok se rodează PNL-ul şi vine PSD-ul. Îşi imaginează cineva că PSD-ul are resurse să facă ceva? PNL-ul vedem că este în logica în care în continuare vorbim e contracte cu dedicaţie, vorbim de aceeaşi logică de nepotism, de pun oamenii mei în locul oamenilor tăi, nu vorbim de competenţă, nu vorbim de examene pe post pe bune, nu vorbim de exact lucrurile de care România are nevoie. Asta propune USR şi Alianţa USR-PLUS. Eu cred că este o ofertă pe care românii o vor aprecia şi vom ajunge să contăm semnificativ în ceea ce urmează.
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