LGBT activist after meeting with Polish President Duda: many people want to leave the country

In 2017, B. Staszewski made a documentary titled “Article 18”. This is an article of the Polish Constitution that defends the marriage of a man and a woman. It is on this basis that the country opposes the legalization of same-sex couples.

After the premiere of a hit movie about the fight for equal rights for lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) people, Stasewski and himself became increasingly involved in the fight. Upon learning that LGBT marches were first planned in his city, Lublin, he quickly became the main organizer.

“It was quite a difficult experience,” recalls 2018 now.

“President [Liublino miesto – red.] He wanted to ban the parade. We were shocked. But we went to court, we won, and we took to the streets. As we walked, the hooligans threw rocks at us. It was a very difficult experience, but for many people it is very important, ”says B. Staszewski, 29.

We talked to him about discrimination against the LGBT community and the fight for equal rights in Poland. Of course, we start the conversation with events that have yet to cool down: Sttaszewski’s meeting with Polish President A. Duda, who previously called LGBT “ideology” more damaging than communism.

– Just over a week ago, during the presidential campaign in the southern city of Bzeg, Polish President Duda called the fight for the rights of sexual minorities a more destructive ideology than communism. How have you and the community responded to this?

– We get upset with those words. Again. Because the same tactic of demonizing the LGBT minority was used before the European elections. We have already heard it, we have seen a “documentary” that is produced on public television, in which we are called the invasion of a foreign agency in Poland. A bishop said that there used to be a red plague, communism and now a rainbow disease.

I think part of us already has some hard skin, but it’s getting worse. We cannot trust even the opposition. They are not particularly interested in supporting us. They see this as a political game and they don’t want to get involved in it, they don’t want to fight for us. As a result, even now we feel lonely, with only a few left-wing party politicians rated very low in the polls. We can’t expect them to change anything. So we are upset and fearful of what will happen next.

If Duda wins the election again, we will be cemented on the same things for another four years.

– You were one of those people the president invited to meet. Unlike the leftist presidential candidate, LGBT activist Robert Biedron and his mother, you did not reject the invitation. How was the meeting and what did you want to achieve in it?

– It was like [seriale – red.] “House of cards”. I had never met the country’s top politicians before. I said that it would be difficult to avoid the political games that could be prepared for me. But I was ready for him [prezidentui – red.] Show pictures of people, LGBT teens who have committed suicide for homophobic reasons. That is why the party and himself are responsible for it.

I wasn’t expecting an apology because I was expecting it to be stupid, I just went there to show photos of those children. Tell him that you have to take full responsibility and that you have to stop telling people that LGBT is an ideology. We are people, residents, we do not want to leave the country to get married. Because I am Polish and I want to do it here in Poland. I want to feel safe here.

After she didn’t want to apologize, didn’t want to change her mind, I said to her: I hope these children are your nightmare.

But he said over and over, as before, that “we know LGBT is an ideology and I know that I enjoy freedom of expression and I don’t have to apologize for anything.” He shook his head and said maybe for them [LGBT bendruomenei – red.] A psychologist is needed, not equal rights. I said yours, he is yours.

After she didn’t want to apologize, didn’t want to change her mind, I said to her: I hope these children are your nightmare. I thanked him for the meeting and left without shaking his hand. A photographer and security guards were waiting for us when we left.

– If we talk more broadly, not only about the events of this week. What does it mean to be a member of the LGBT community and live in Poland? And how much depends on the region of the country?

– I think the situation in the bubble in Warsaw, the capital, is a little different than in the smaller cities. But the biggest problem is that we can’t even hold our loved one’s hand so as not to be afraid. Especially now that there is violence against people who use rainbow paraphernalia. It also happened to my friends, keep posting on Facebook for the unpleasant things they say. This was not the case before.

Such cases began in 2015, when Law and Justice came to power. It’s scary because there is no anti-discrimination program in schools.

We have rainbow fridays. It is an annual campaign against homophobia. Very simple: you, as a teacher, simply invite children to have some kind of rainbow symbolism. However, only a very small number of schools join, because even such a small thing in Poland is very controversial.

The Law and Justice Party, right-wing non-governmental organizations (NGOs) are doing their best to punish participating schools.

Even in those “LGBT-free zones” everything is connected. The same politicians who create those areas are responsible for allocating funds to the school from the national budget. Therefore, the teacher or the school principal cannot do anything against them. If teachers in this area want to contribute to equality events, talk about discrimination, they fear being expelled from school: “You know, I love you, but they will take away funds and that’s it.”

These are things that may be invisible to others, but obvious to us.

Another thing is the increasing number of suicides due to homophobia, LGBT young people are more vulnerable. The fact that they are trying to commit suicide, we become aware of people who have survived and are being treated in hospitals. The LGBT context, bullying has a great impact, it is the biggest problem for adolescents in the LGBT community. But of course we never hear the names of those who commit suicide, which is a problem because politicians easily wash their hands.

– You mentioned that you don’t want to leave the country. But where do those thoughts come from? Have you ever felt insecure in the country?

– It makes me very hateful. But I’m used to it already, I have thicker skin. I always say that I have the privilege of living in Warsaw, working in an independent job, I am open to my parents and friends. Therefore, I have to take advantage of this privilege and represent those who cannot, those who work, live in those areas, small towns, they are afraid.

But my boyfriend and I were at an LGBT event during which there was a violent attack on random people. I think we are in a situation where many people want to leave Poland. Everyone in the community knows someone who has already left or wants to leave. We have the second massive wave of emigration from Poland, not for economic reasons, but for tolerance, acceptance, the desire to live simply.

People who leave have no expectations for the West, they just want to live a simple life. They are not born fighters, they know they have a life and none of them can expect anything else.

We have a second massive migration from Poland, not for economic reasons, but for tolerance, acceptance, the desire to live simply.

I could hang an LGBT paraphernalia, a flag, on the balcony, in my house, but I don’t. I am careful when uploading photos, Facebook posts, I am used to doing it not immediately, but a few hours later. You have to be very careful with what you post, what you do. About 20,000 people follow my activities. But I know that there are those who do it because they want to know where I am, what I am doing, who I am talking to.

So I’m worried about my boyfriend. I can say that I will object. But if my boyfriend after 8 years of relationship says he wants to leave Poland because he no longer feels safe, I think I will have to think about it.

I think a lot of people change slowly. Although last year was the most difficult for the LGBT community, the largest number of people still gathered for the march. Even in the communist era we were not the most important objective, now we are the objective of the democratic party. The Law and Justice pressure us, but we are not waiting for the change, we are achieving it.

The solidarity movement won against communism. Now we have another solidarity: the rainbow people.

– If we go back to last year, which you call the most difficult for the community, one of the most striking cases was the first LGBT march in Białystok, which met with great resistance. Did you attend there yourself?

– I was there. I took my camera so that we had memories and I did not forget what happened there. In fact, I felt that something was going to happen. This city is known to soccer fans. It was horrible. People threw big bricks and stones at us and at the police. My friend in a wheelchair became his target, they threw fireworks at him. People spit on us.

I saw a person ask the police why they were watching us if we wanted to teach children to masturbate. Such propaganda is created by Polish public television, which is controlled by the government. People grow up with such false news and then throw stones at us.

I don’t think the Polish nation is homophobic, such a small part of the people. But in the Polish parliament, politicians are mostly homophobic, even if they are from a liberal or opposition party.

If it wasn’t the police, although there weren’t many of them, they would [eitynių priešininkai – red.] it would have killed us. As we walked down the street, right-wing politicians wrote fake stories on Twitter that we were supposedly going to church to destroy sacred relics. They wanted to create a situation to attack us. People’s heads are full of fools, false news that we will destroy their culture.

– Rafal Trzaskowski, a representative of A. Duda’s rival in the presidential elections, who became mayor of Warsaw in 2018, showed his support for the LGBT community. He signed the LGBT Charter, promising support for the LGBT community and its fight against discrimination. In response, LGBT-free zones have begun to be created. What did this letter mean for the community and how has the LGBT situation changed in the face of such a political confrontation?

– Yes, the mayor has signed the LGBT statute. There were six essential aspirations (divided into 12 steps in the original document). He made only one. It was just a public relations campaign during the march. Symbolic. But the most important goal, the shelter for LGBT people excluded from their families, has never emerged and has not been discussed.

In February, when the project was signed, right-wing politicians at the local level began writing documents that allegedly destroyed the LGBT “ideology”, which later became a party-wide strategy. They were disgusting documents that said that we are enemies that we want to destroy values. They slowly appeared in various cities, we thought it was a coincidence, but then we saw that the creation of such documents became the policy of the entire party.

In the online political debate we have heard that those politicians did not even know what the LGBT acronym means. At the state level, there is a desire in their minds to fight something. And someone told them that they had to fight for Christianity. You know, as warriors. They started doing it in small towns, provinces, without even knowing what they were doing. He started building walls, not bridges, separating some people from their own communities. Eventually, a large number of such areas emerged.

When criticized for speaking out against LGBT “ideology,” right-wing NGOs emerged, mostly lawyers. They came up with the idea of ​​creating a document that, of course, sets us apart from society, but without using unpleasant words. Activists have put many of these areas on an interactive map, the so-called “Atlas of Hate.” For this, the same NGO sued them for defamation. In this way, they legitimized their power by creating a new document that does not contain offensive words, but only supports the union of heterosexual families, men and women, even excluding single parents.

– What does it mean to live in such an area?

– It means fear of organizing LGBT marches. For those politicians, as they told local media in an interview, LGBT “ideology” is a march, with people holding hands.

When I was creating my project, I asked people how they felt. One girl said that nothing has changed. But when asked if he could go down the street holding his girlfriend by the hand, he said: Of course not, it’s impossible. Then I asked him another question. Usually when you finish school there is a big celebration where all the students gather. A few years ago, same-sex couples also started coming there. That’s what I asked: are you doing this? Clearly not, she said. Even teachers say don’t go and don’t even imagine such a thing.

I know a guy who had to take medicine for heart pain. After he revealed his guidance on my project and fought the “LGBT-free” document at city hall, the pharmacist refused to give him medication. Of course, he didn’t say that because he was gay. But then the pharmacist disappeared into another room. This creates stigma.

Politicians in the interviews said it would be better if LGBT people were in hiding. Everything is fine until we show up and fight for our rights. It is better for them if we go back “to the closet”. But we know that the best strategy is visibility. This works in all countries that fight for equality. Therefore, we need to organize marches, to show that we are proud to have survived this pressure, the suicidal thoughts that arise when you feel lonely.

– What do you expect in the future, Bart? – I hope to resist I have high hopes that the times of this President are coming to an end and that the attempt to demonize us will no longer work. The greater number of people gathered for the march gives me hope that there will be even more. Even when it will be very difficult, even if we use a pandemic against ourselves and impose heavy fines for demonstrating. This is my hopeful future, hoping we still fight and don’t lose this fight.