Navick was surprised by the attitude of his colleagues towards homosexuals: We told Jews in a similar way by closing them to the ghettos.

Navickas: We have to stop talking about sexual minorities as a kind of “them”.

As A. Navickas, a member of the Lithuanian Christian National-Democratic Union (TS-LKD) faction, pointed out on the show, discussion participants sometimes forget what is very important.

“In this situation we are talking about, we think a lot about what the other has to say and then we think very little about our speech: how much they oppose, how much they apply,” said the politician.

After the avalanche of criticism of his attitude towards the Istanbul Convention by Father Algirdas Toliatas, President Gitanas Nausėda sided with the priest. As Mr. Navickas said, he would like the head of state to be in favor of all the citizens of the country who are being persecuted.

“I would like the president to say that I am with all those who are being persecuted, with all those who cannot speak. Well, the president has chosen, “said the member of the Seimas.

Mr. Navickas also said that he had spoken with other active Christians about the heated debate and issues related to the Partnership Institute and the Istanbul Convention.

“I had to talk to some jealous Christians; when you try to talk about the problems, they tell you ‘but you can’t imagine it, it’s all a big hoax and even if I don’t have arguments it’s still insidious.’ Video like that. ‘I watch that video, you see something really treacherous in it and then it seems like it’s an argument, “he said.

According to the parliamentarian, problems of violence can be solved without the Istanbul Convention, but no such measures are taken.

“I have never been a big fan of the convention and now I don’t think the convention is some kind of panacea that solves problems. We could do a lot of things without a convention, but we don’t, “emphasized A. Navickas.

In his opinion, a way out of the debate on the institute of association can be found.

As for the association, as a member of the Human Rights Committee, it goes without saying that everyone in Lithuania has the right to live in conditions of safety and dignity. The question is how to legitimize it, how to do it: we are looking for those options and we can really discover them. The only thing that matters in this situation is that we, as Christians or politicians, stop talking about sexual minorities as a kind of “them”: we are real people who have power here and we can tell someone how they live, “he said. .

Commenting on the cricket partners’ proposal to grant the association only to heterosexual couples and to offer a special contract for homosexual couples to live together, A. Navickas said that problems should not be solved in this way.

According to the politician, legalizing society for all people, regardless of their sexual orientation, would in no way harm the family of a man and a woman.

“It sounds to me here, as we said in a similar way to the Jews: we will lock them in the ghetto to protect them, we are very good, we have to isolate them in some way. (…) There are people who are hurt who face problems, bullying, pressure and we have to deal with that. How it can harm families, I really don’t understand. I have lived in a family for almost 30 years and I do not understand how the legalization of a society can destroy my family or another family somewhere, especially when the priests speak of the destruction of families; I also understand little, ”said A. Navickas. .

Reading the Gospel, he says, shows that the current debate and some rhetoric from church representatives do not reflect Christian values. However, such a heated debate, according to A. Navickas, can be helpful.

“A certain kind of crisis in the church, a test, the understanding that the priest can speak and the bishop can speak when he talks about politics is also a positive thing,” said a member of the TS-LKD faction.

Finally, he noted that there were differences of opinion within his group regarding the association and the Istanbul Convention, but at the same time expressed the hope of seeing diversity of opinion within the church itself.

Priest Sasnauskas: the power of the priests no longer exists and is partly good

For his part, the dissident priest J. Sasnauskas pointed out in the discussion that opposition in public should not be compared to the struggle between good and evil, as some priests do.

“I would always like to take that side of the weak. In this case, church representatives tried to speak from positions of strength, thinking that they still have that influence or power and can tell others to advise them how they should live and behave in the state, but that power is no longer there. . It’s partly a good thing that they aren’t anymore, because the question is, why do we have to fight as a church? Do we want us to be afraid that someone will hypocritically show respect or try to bribe, or trust us? I would very much like the public to trust the church, ”he said.

According to him, theologians have been discussing for many years how the church should speak about homosexual relationships, associations, and the like.

According to J. Sasnauskas, allowing homosexual people to form a society or ratify the Istanbul Convention would not harm other families.

“I don’t know how to move a family, I can’t imagine such danger. Is the family the only thing the church should fight for, and is the church really the only force that protects the family? For me, everything sometimes smells of hypocrisy. With that aggression, we teach them (others, aut.p.) our inability to do something else, “said the priest.

At the same time, he pointed to the position of Pope Francis in which the pontiff called homosexuals children of God and argued that they should be able to legitimize relationships. However, J. Sasnauskas did not hide a similar understanding in the words of some critics of the Istanbul Convention.

“Why is the Pope listened to? – When he talks, you really see that he cares that it hurts. I don’t see that pain and that concern when I hear criticism of the Istanbul Convention. I only see aggressive attack, accusation, conspiracy theories, “said the priest.

Clinical psychologist: intolerance intensifies at critical times

For her part, clinical psychologist Danutė Gailienė spoke at the fair about the fact that there is no single reason for resistance.

According to her, the blunt statements are also affected by the pandemic.

“This situation is definitely not something non-existent, invisible, from time to time we fall into such crises, this time – shocks. Probably everyone should remember one thing: the context of a pandemic really becomes their own. We have less impression, action, contact. It can be said that there is accumulated and unused energy ”, said D. Gailienė.

According to her, aggressive rhetoric may be due to certain complexes or lack of discussion skills. However, according to the psychologist, one of the reasons may be that the nation is still experiencing post-traumatic phenomena.

“I think we have to recognize a reason: we have to admit that we are between the West and the bloc we came from but we take our legacy. Such traumas, such legacies do not pass so quickly, we still have many things brought from there: intolerance, uncivilized forms of talk, and this is especially intensified in critical times, ”noted D. Gailienė.

According to her, in such cases there is a great lack of “peacemakers” who speak in public, people who would try to find and discuss compromises or a respectful discussion.

“The general trend has already been seen quite positively, now there is such a decline; we have all somehow forgotten and entered positions of war. Everyone is fighting for something and hears little concern that there is a common good, a country , a society where an agreement must be reached ”, said the psychologist.

According to her, the participants in the discussion should worry not only about power, but also about the suffering of others, they should show empathy, not anger.

Priest J. Sasnauskas was second after D. Gailiene.

“I can see very well that society is improving, aggression and violence are decreasing. In part, that conflict arose when various church members spoke out in anger, hatred, and the public reacted. (…) Society is going well – I have repeated and will repeat that freedom works by itself and we learn and learn to debate. This story also helps both sides to see themselves, and the church can see itself in the mirror if it can, it wants to see it ”, added the priest.