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SPIEGEL: Ms. Kramp-Karrenbauer, on February 10 you announced your retirement from the party leadership. Do you think the CDU will have a president before the first anniversary of its announcement?
Kramp-Karrenbauer: The whole country is now locked up for another four weeks. It will not be until the beginning of December how high the number of infections will be and when the CDU will be able to hold a party congress later. So we also know if there is a basis for an alternative, for example for a digital party congress where we can also vote digitally in a legally secure way.
SPIEGEL: Can you imagine that this year there will be elections after all?
Kramp-Karrenbauer: No. We cannot prepare a party congress at random. That would be irresponsible in this situation, and something like that also costs money. The Presidium and the Federal Board decided in December how to proceed; this includes the question of whether elections can be held in January 2021.
SPIEGEL: You sound like Corona fell from the sky in October. It was clear that it could be difficult, if not impossible, with a party congress in early December. Didn’t you just fail to come up with a concrete plan?
Kramp-Karrenbauer: Of course, the party headquarters have thought a lot. Many concepts were developed at Konrad-Adenauer-Haus. Regarding the question of the party congress, we always decide together in the commissions, on September 14 we agreed to a face-to-face congress. I would also like to remind you that a few weeks ago in Germany we were discussing where we were going on our fall vacation. The situation was completely different. We had a very convincing hygiene concept for the party convention in Stuttgart.
SPIEGEL: But that is not enough.
Kramp-Karrenbauer: Secretary General Paul Ziemiak also developed concepts for a decentralized party congress. Since the first blockade, we have fought hard to make digital conferences of electoral parties legally possible. Unfortunately, there is still no way to make this legally safe. I hope that changes. The vote-by-mail option still existed. But this is the worst of all variants because it is tedious and impractical. What kind of image would the CDU give if it elects its board of directors by letter on all ballots for two and a half or three months?
CDU chief: “The establishment is actually a term from the spontaneous scene.”
Photo: Dominik Butzmann / DER SPIEGEL
SPIEGEL: To be able to vote digitally with legal certainty, you should enlist the help of other parties.
Kramp-Karrenbauer: The safest way would be an amendment to the Basic Law that would make digital elections possible in the future. To do this, we need an even larger majority. We will now resume talks with the other parties. Everyone is affected. That is why I appeal to all: let’s do this together. It’s not just about Corona, it’s also about how we position ourselves as parties in a digitized world.
SPIEGEL: Would it be technically possible?
Kramp-Karrenbauer: In the case of internal party elections, democratic electoral principles must be respected. Stronger rules apply here than with clubs or companies. It should be avoided in all circumstances that the new CDU president, who will later also become a candidate for chancellor, first has to deal with legal disputes in the federal election campaign because the election is contested.
SPIEGEL: We get it right: will the next head of the CDU also be a candidate for chancellor?
Kramp-Karrenbauer: Whoever becomes president of the CDU, naturally, also has the right to be a candidate for chancellor of the CDU. It must be clarified with the CSU if he too will be a joint candidate for the union.
SPIEGEL: The CDU is currently suffering a power struggle between three men, none of whom is considered an ideal candidate for chancellor. Wouldn’t it be better for the entire Union if you stayed in office for the time being and then offered the nomination to Markus Söder?
Kramp-Karrenbauer: We have been living with this situation since February. Until this weekend it was not a problem. By then, all three candidates have disciplined themselves and contributed to fair competition. This is possible again and again with the good will of all. Now I hope that everyone in this difficult situation of the corona pandemic will not have discussions that harm the CDU as a whole.
SPIEGEL: You say yourself: see you this weekend. The matter escalated because Armin Laschet wanted to postpone the party congress and Friedrich Merz was against it.
Kramp-Karrenbauer: This dispute goes far beyond what the occasion actually provides. Neither the rush nor the postcards helped the CDU. In our country, citizens currently fear for their health, for losing relatives or are worried about their professional future. The question whether a party congress takes place a little earlier or later is comparatively small. All candidates must make this their heart.
SPIEGEL: Now you have elegantly avoided our question as to whether the party wouldn’t be better if you stayed a little longer.
Kramp-Karrenbauer: We have a clear position.
SPIEGEL: Can all three still be used after this theater?
Kramp-Karrenbauer: Delegates will decide at the end. The more ruinous the contest, the more people will ask about other candidates as a reflection of this discussion.
SPIEGEL: Do you expect that?
Kramp-Karrenbauer: I currently assume that the candidate field will continue to be that way.
SPIEGEL: With the discussions he refers to Jens Spahn, who is mentioned over and over again as a possible candidate for compromise.
Kramp-Karrenbauer: Know this speculation. But he has stated that he would like to be part of Armin Laschet’s team. I don’t know of any other statement from him.
SPIEGEL: Everyone is now upset about Friedrich Merz and his fight. But he has a point: the CDU leadership is fleeing a decision on the presidency.
Kramp-Karrenbauer: We cannot hold this party conference at this time in view of the increasing number of infections. Let’s close now. The idea that we can explain why family gatherings are dangerous but not a party convention with 1,000 delegates is not realistic. By the way: many on the federal executive board, including Merz supporters, found his remarks offensive after the unanimous decision against a party congress on December 4.
SPIEGEL: Among other things, he spoke of the fact that parts of the “establishment” had conspired against him. What did you think when you heard that?
Kramp-Karrenbauer: Establishment is actually a term from the spontaneous scene. So far I haven’t put Friedrich Merz on the scene (laughs).
SPIEGEL: How much does the leadership dispute hurt the CDU?
Kramp-Karrenbauer: Take a look at the polls. Many people trust the Federal Government and the parties, especially the CDU, in this difficult time for Corona. They know that they can and can always trust us in a crisis. That is what we should focus on now in the difficult phase of a new lockdown.
SPIEGEL: Is this argument a male phenomenon?
Kramp-Karrenbauer: I don’t know and it doesn’t matter. In any case, it is not good for anyone.
Kramp-Karrenbauer with SPIEGEL editors Christoph Hickmann and Veit Medick
Photo: Dominik Butzmann / DER SPIEGEL
SPIEGEL: Merz says that he has been preparing for his candidacy for two years, which means he never stopped after losing to you at the 2018 match conference. Did you notice anything about it?
Kramp-Karrenbauer: Friedrich Merz always did this with a very open mind. Shortly after the party conference in Hamburg, he told me that he would keep an eye on the situation and if in doubt he would run again if he saw the opportunity. Up to that point it was open competition.
SPIEGEL: So I always saw in your chair, but could you at least see him do it?
Kramp-Karrenbauer: I do not adopt the image as my own. But, in fact, the decision of the party congress in Hamburg did not finally clarify the issue. That should not be repeated now. I hope so from the three candidates.
