Interview with Peter Neumann: “The Trump movement will produce terror”

Saturday, January 9, 2021

Interview with Peter Neumann
“The Trump movement will produce terror”

The storm on Capitol Hill was not the end, but the beginning of an extremist movement, says political scientist Peter Neumann. “What we saw on Wednesday was not terrorism yet, but rarely has a terrorist movement been announced in such a spectacular way.”

ntv.de: What were the motives of the people who invaded the Capitol on Wednesday?

Peter Neumann: These people are clearly convinced that President Trump’s election victory was stolen. And they try to change this injustice, because that is how they perceive it.

Joe Biden said they were not protesters, but “an unbridled crowd, rioters, domestic terrorists.”

The protesters had different motives. Most of them did not have a precise plan, they followed the same as other demonstrations, only this demonstration intensified. But there are reports that clearly show that the assault on the Capitol had been planned for some time, at least by some of these protesters. They evidently had some kind of overthrow plan. It was not by chance that the Capitol was occupied on January 6, but precisely at the moment when Joe Biden’s electoral victory was about to be certified. This constitutional act, and with it Joe Biden as president, must be avoided. Now we also know that there were also people who participated in the assault on the Capitol who clearly had terrorist intentions. At least some wanted to take hostages on Capitol Hill.

Despite these differences, is it a movement?

I would definitely see these people as a movement. First of all, they are all supporters of Trump and agree that he won the presidential election last November. On the other hand, it is very clear that they come from a common ideological milieu. This medium is dominated by QAnon, the so-called Q movement, which has become very strong in the last one or two years and represents an extreme segment within the Trump movement. This is an ideological conspiracy movement that exists primarily on the internet. The essence of QAnon is the belief that the US government, and indeed the entire establishment, is ruled by a satanic cult seeking to protect a network of child abusers. As absurd as it may be, part of that belief is that Trump is the figure of the light fighting these satanic structures. Anyone who believes in such a thing can justify anything to prevent Trump from being defeated.

There was already talk of the danger of a civil war in the United States before the 2016 presidential elections. Is it a realistic fear?

I am convinced that there is great potential for violence in this movement. The fact that there have been no major outbreaks of violence has to do with the fact that Trump has been in power so far. So far there has been no reason for his supporters to use force against the government. On January 20, however, his term finally ended, when a new president took office. There will be no reason to hold back for the extreme parts of this movement. The second point is that you will remain convinced that his opponents are child molesters, Satanists, and enemies of the United States. And finally, QAnon’s supporters are largely heavily armed. This includes people who have been in the military or the police and know how to use weapons. That’s a combination that may not lead to a civil war; there are very few for that. But after the events of January 6, we can be sure that the Trump movement will also create terror. The storm on Capitol Hill was not the end point, but the beginning of an extremist movement that will also be violent. What we saw on Wednesday was not yet terrorism, but rarely has a terrorist movement been announced in such spectacular fashion.

Do right-wing populist movements inevitably lead to what we saw in Washington, or are enduring and peaceful right-wing populist movements conceivable that do not want to delegitimize democracy?

Of course, there are also populist movements whose form at least fits into the democratic system, like the Front National in France, which has already lost many elections and has no intention of transforming itself into a terrorist movement yet. Or the Swiss People’s Party, which is integrated into the Swiss political system. These parties do not reject democracy as such; they often demand a more direct democracy. What they reject is liberal democracy. That is an important difference. This liberal element in Western democracies relates to the role of parliaments, the courts, the media and, last but not least, the protection of minorities. It cannot be said that all right-wing populists are always and inevitably against democracy. This makes it too easy for your opponents.

Hubertus Volmer spoke with Peter Neumann