“National security would have been put at risk”: Carlos Holmes Trujillo- ELESPECTADOR.COM

Since December last year, President Iván Duque has ordered an audit of what military intelligence and counterintelligence have done in the last ten years. That fact, highlighted by Defense Minister Carlos Holmes Trujillo, seems much more important today. Now that the Army faces a new political and judicial storm due to possible illegal follow-ups, this time by computers and more than 130 people, there are many questions in the air. Some of them are condensed in a questionnaire sent to Minister Trujillo. So he replied.

The commander of the Military Forces, General Navarro, has reiterated that high military officers did not know about these intelligence operations. How to understand that work of this caliber is done secretly?

Because, if these facts are verified, it would be illegal activities carried out by individuals, not in exercise of an institutional policy. The denounced is completely outside the policy of President Iván Duque, the guidelines of the Ministry of Defense, the high command and, worse still, the Intelligence Law (1621 of 2013), which clearly states in article 4 that In no case may intelligence or counterintelligence capabilities be used to collect, process, or disseminate a person’s data for reasons of gender, race, national or family origin, language, religion, political or philosophical opinion, membership in a union, social organization or human rights, or to promote the interests of any political party or movement or affect the rights and guarantees of opposition political parties.

That is why, since the end of last year, he had requested, by instruction of President Duque, an audit of intelligence and counterintelligence activities for the past 10 years. Likewise, the highest speed in this audit was requested, taking into account both the Government’s policy and the journalistic complaints from the beginning of this year. For the national government, these complaints are extremely serious and we hope that the results of the investigations will soon be known and those responsible will be determined.

(For context: New scandal in Military Intelligence: 11 officers and a general left the Army.)

Similar is the situation with President Duque, who assured that everything happened behind his back. How to understand that the maximum commander of the Military Forces did not know?

I do not accept that the honor of a great Colombian, such as President Duque, is questioned. We are talking about alleged illegal activities, which are carried out as a criminal act, from hiding, which go against the very essence of the government of President Iván Duque, who from the first day of his mandate was forceful in demanding transparency and zero tolerance with illegality. I have done the same in the Public Force since I took office as Minister of Defense, I have asked them, both in public and in private, that they must be completely transparent in their actions.

In addition, it was President Duque who in December last year ordered an audit of intelligence and counterintelligence activities of the last 10 years, precisely to determine possible vulnerabilities and strengthen capacities for the protection of citizens, as well as controls on the same. As soon as I took over as defense minister, I launched that instruction and, later, when the specific complaints from Semana magazine were known, I ordered that the investigations of the case be carried out immediately and that the Office of the Prosecutor and the Attorney General be brought to the attention of in order to carry out the actions that correspond in law.

What was the audit, announced since January this year? Does it serve to prevent episodes like this from repeating?

In addition to the actions that I have explained, the general command of the Military Forces carried out a strategic review committee from January 27 to April 27, 2020 of the intelligence and counterintelligence service. As a result of this review, 25 lines of effort were defined in terms of doctrine, organization, personnel, leadership and strengthening of controls, among others. Instructions have been given in 15 of these.

(Also: “I will not tolerate those who dishonor the uniform”: Duke about a new scandal in the Army.)

Did you or the Ministry know about these operations?

I was not aware of any illegal activity and if I had found out I would have reported it immediately to the competent authorities. In fact, I did so in January when the first publication of Semana was released. What is denounced is extremely serious and the authorities must determine the circumstances and the individual responsible for these events, who must also be punished severely.

Can one think, with such repetitive episodes of irregularities in military intelligence, that this area became a loose wheel?

Due to the alleged illegal actions of some individuals, military intelligence cannot be stigmatized, which is one of the capabilities of greatest strategic value for the security of the country and the protection of citizens. Also fundamental in the fight against instability factors such as drug trafficking and terrorism. Precisely because of the importance of this capacity is that, in order to strengthen it, several actions have been taken: the audit of all intelligence and counterintelligence activities of the last 10 years was ordered in December, in order to verify and assess compliance of the Constitution, the law, plans, programs, projects, objectives, processes and procedures at all levels.

In addition, the Army strengthened the Institutional Strategic Control System, to prevent, combat, and sanction irregular situations that may arise more expeditiously. Changes were made to the structure of the Military Forces to streamline and improve intelligence controls, operations, processes, and procedures, including in the intelligence and counterintelligence unit headquarters throughout the country.

For at least 20 years we have been hearing stories of how military intelligence ends up linked to scandals like this week. How long will it be like this?

All the actions I have explained are precisely to ensure that these situations do not reoccur. For President Iván Duque, and for me as Defense Minister, it is essential that military intelligence is exercised in strict compliance with the Constitution, the law and respect for human rights.

Taking into account that the investigative work by the judicial and disciplinary authorities is essential to identify those responsible, effectively punish and avoid the repetition of these behaviors, the Ministry of National Defense has issued orders to the superior command so that all support is provided. to these authorities and to be able to have results as soon as possible at the disciplinary and criminal level.

In the Government there is zero tolerance for any illegal act and I will not shake my hand to denounce those who commit them. I bet for the Army and for the entire Public Force, but transparency is the source of its legitimacy and of the support and affection of Colombians. It is not about doing injustices or looking for scapegoats. It is about knowing the truth, getting to the bottom, so that those who have violated the law and dishonored military uniform and values ​​are punished.

(You may be interested: “Individual actions cannot define the institution”: General Zapateiro)

You said changes were made to the Army command structure to streamline and improve intelligence processes. What changes were they?

In recent months, changes have been made in the structure of the Army, in the General Staff and in the operational units, and in addition, the commanders of 24 intelligence and counterintelligence units throughout the country have been changed.

What indications or evidence did you send to the Prosecutor’s Office and the Attorney General’s Office?

On January 13 of this year, the General Command of the Military Forces requested copies from the Office of the Attorney General of the Nation and informed the Office of the Attorney General of the process opened by the General Inspection of the Military Forces. Likewise, at that time I contacted the prosecutor and the attorney general and informed them that they would have all our collaboration to clarify the truth.

According to reports, in these follow-ups there would also be resources from the United States, has any authority from that country contacted you as a result of this?

It is the competent authorities that must determine if international cooperation equipment and resources were used in illegal acts. So far I have not had communication with other countries in this regard.

What basic measures are being taken on this occasion, which perhaps have not been taken before, to prevent us from being on the same stage in a matter of a few months?

In addition to the adoption of administrative measures for the improvement of the service, related to the retirement from active service of 12 Army officers, a thorough process of strategic review of military intelligence capabilities was carried out. As a result of this process, led by the general command, 25 lines of effort will be executed that will strengthen the capacities and controls of intelligence and counterintelligence activities.

The foregoing is without prejudice to the decisions that we adopt after the results of the criminal and disciplinary investigations carried out by the competent criminal and disciplinary authorities are known.

(It may interest you: The “secret folders” of military intelligence: who were they for and what for?)

If there is still no information to hold General Nicacio Martínez responsible for these irregularities, why did they suspend his appointment as military attache in Belgium?

The appointment had not been made and is a discretionary decision of the Government. I must also say that General Martínez enjoys the presumption of innocence and has the right, like every Colombian, to due process.

Have you thought about reevaluating what internal messages are being sent so that a sector of the Army thinks that it is OK to identify journalists, politicians and lawyers who do not live illegally as targets?

The message is absolutely clear and it is to strictly comply with the law. That has no discussion or gives rise to any other interpretation. It is what President Iván Duque has always said and it is what I have demanded since I took office. I have told the commanders in private and I have told the troops in public. Furthermore, in Colombia, the Constitution and the law do not provide interpretations of intelligence activities. The Intelligence Law is clear and explains the purposes, functions and limits of these activities and says, from its first articles, that no one can be followed up on account of their profession or way of thinking. Those who carry out illegal acts are not military, they are not police, they are criminals and must be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

Professor and lawyer Catalina Botero explained that the difference between a democratic state and an authoritarian state is that in a democratic state intelligence is used to prevent or prosecute crimes, not to spy on people who say or do things with which the state would not you agree. With the denunciation of the magazine “Semana”, it seems that we are rather an authoritarian one. What responds to this?

The first thing that must be said with complete clarity is that the allegedly illegal activities that have been denounced are not a State policy or directive. These are individuals who deliberately decided to violate the Constitution, the law and the directives of the Government of President Duque. These are criminals and it is the competent authorities that must determine for what purpose or on whose orders.

Additionally, it cannot be forgotten that the national government is also a victim. According to the complaint, among the allegedly outlined would be the former Secretary General of the Presidency, Dr. Jorge Mario Eastman. And that has made us think that there would even be an interest in reaching the President’s own office, putting national security at risk, which is why we have asked the authorities, hopefully soon, to know the results of these investigations and those responsible individuals are sanctioned in an exemplary manner.

Everything contemplated by the journalistic complaint is serious, very serious, because even the head of state’s office would be arriving, that is to say, that illegal acts would have been committed against the President of the Republic. We have to know the whole truth, because if so, a conspiracy against the Colombian president would be hatched.

(Also read: The military that left the Army amid the new scandal of “bullshit”)

Colombia, in theory, is a State that respects freedom of the press and of expression. What can you say to the international community, especially to the American journalists, who were the target of these follow-ups?

Of course, Colombia is a respectful State of Law and defender of freedoms. Defender of press freedom, which is one of the pillars of our democracy. This is what the national government is like, and this is how I have been in my public life, during which I have defended and promoted that right, even in spaces such as the National Constituent Assembly.

Here is a State determined to defend those freedoms and to punish in the most severe way, as the President of the Republic himself has asked, those responsible for actions that transgress the law, according to the results of the investigations that are underway. . There can be no impunity here.

Do you consider that with this scandal the image of Colombia abroad is severely affected?

Colombia is a mature democracy, respected in the international context. We live, like many other nations in the world, overcoming difficulties. But today the world recognizes us more for the achievements we have achieved as a society in the midst of adversity and for the actions we have taken, and continue to take, to overcome difficult episodes like this. The world knows that criminals have no borders and that situations like these must be faced as we are: with the decision to apply the law rigorously and identify those responsible.