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Jorge Mario Eastman, today the Colombian ambassador to the Vatican, is the highest-ranking official who apparently was monitored by military intelligence when he served as secretary general of the Presidency.
According to the magazine WeekEastman is included in the dossier prepared by military intelligence, which also includes profiles and folders of at least 130 people, including politicians, former military personnel and journalists.
From Rome, Eastman, who occupied the general secretariat of the Presidency at the beginning of the government of President Iván Duque, spoke to EL TIEMPO.
This weekend a scandal emerged that has to do with the Army’s monitoring of some people, such as journalists and government officials. including you. What is your opinion on this?
I don’t know
It is very worrying, for two reasons. The first, because the illegal investigation of the Secretary General of the Presidency, who is for natural reasons the President’s most trusted person and who has the most information from the entire Government, is very delicate, because it is an attempt in reality to penetrate and illegally obtain information from the heart of the Presidency and the President of the Republic. And a second reason, which may be more theoretical, but more delicate, is that one of the fundamental premises of a democracy is that citizens give power to a ruler to control and supervise the use of force of arms, They are deposited in an Army, which in turn is controlled by the civil authorities.
The fact that they carry out illegal investigations into the heart of the Presidency is a profound bomb for democracy itself. So, on that side, it is very sad and very worrying, but you also have to look at it on the positive side.
What is that positive side?
I don’t know
Is that there is myWe should consider it as an opportunity to make changes in intelligence, to see if we make fundamental changes that protect an institution that is fundamental to fight crime in Colombia. It is not a question of ending intelligence, but of having the instruments that allow that intelligence to be properly carried out on the people it touches, which are criminals. And that you have adequate supervision and controls so that you do not fall into temptations.
The fact that they carry out illegal investigations into the heart of the Presidency is a profound bomb for democracy itself.
Do you feel that there are some elements within the Public Force that are failing?
I do not believe in the theory of bad apples, this was not done by bad apples. What I do believe is that one should try to have a healthy apple tree. So that apple tree, that military institutionality and particularly such critical units to safeguard the lives and assets of Colombians, such as intelligence, must have people with moral leadership, people who are bulletproof, of values and principles and that in difficult times and in times of complex situations, they can make decisions always based on principles and values that we all share.
Do you feel that these interceptions or follow-ups that were being carried out on you were to reach the President?
I don’t know
I have no information at this time that phones have been intercepted or what they did. All I know is what the magazine published Week, which is a kind of profile, I think what they put into that profile is who you are, what you like, where you go, who you talk to. I have no idea. And that seems to me to be a relatively ridiculous task and it does not seem to me of greater strategic importance, at least in what I knew.
But in any case, it is extremely delicate that they intervene the Secretary General of the Presidency illegally. Whether it is ridiculous or not, they have already done a job well done or not, the important thing is that they dared to seek information illegally from the person who for natural reasons is the closest to the President of the Republic. That has no presentation, it is inadmissible.
You say that you only know the information published over the weekend, but are you going to formally ask the Defense Ministry to deliver everything to you?
I don’t know
Today I formally requested that information. I sent a letter to the Army commander to send me the information that the military intelligence legally obtained so that I could know what the information they obtained was about. For now I will have to wait for that to happen.
Illegal monitoring of the Secretary General of the Republic is very delicate, that decision is not made by anyone of low rank
These decisions are not made by low-ranking officers or NCOs …
No, I am very concerned, because taking the risks of illegally following up on the Secretary General of the Republic is very delicate; That decision is not made by anyone of low rank. This must come from higher orders and, unfortunately, so far there is most likely an attempted liability of officials who were carrying out higher orders. I hope that an investigation will be done and that it will be done soon, quickly and thoroughly.
So you have no idea who the information being collected was for?
I don’t know
No. And I do not want to create conspiracy theories myself, which will first cloud reason, when one is a victim and as a victim I will have to be part of a judicial process. When you have conspiracy theories you end up blinded by the theory that you developed and I think that does not help to elucidate the truth.
Although it is early, have you thought about suing the Ministry of Defense or those who are responsible for these events?
I don’t know
As soon as I have the collection of what information they have and to review what they did, and the way in which they intervened with the secretary of the Republic, I will make that decision, if it is a decision that involves criminally suing whoever corresponds. But, again, the delicate thing here is not the case of Jorge Mario Eastman, but the audacity of what seems to be to follow up on the Presidency of the Republic.
What do you feel is that the follow-up was ultimately not for you but for the Presidency?
I don’t know
Yes, without a doubt, because I do not have any important value as a person to be investigated. It was because of the position he was using, because of the position he was in, because of his closeness to the President of the Republic.
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