– I was surprised – VG

– I was surprised, says Lena Larsen about the program.

She is married to Basim Ghozlan, a former head of the Islamic Council and director of the Rabit Mosque in Oslo. Ghozlan was one of several Muslims SIAN leader Lars Thorsen mentioned when “Debate” host Fredrik Solvang asked him to name which Muslims they wanted to send out of Norway.

The debate aired on Thursday night and dealt with freedom of expression. The debate takes place after clashes between SIAN and counter-protesters in both Bergen and Oslo in recent weeks.

Among the guests was SIAN leader Lars Thorsen. According to Solvang, no one wanted to discuss Thorsen directly, so the host conducted an interview directly with him early in the show.

The starting point of the interview was the content of one of SIAN’s brochures, in which the organization writes, among other things, that “all good Muslims are bad human beings.” They also argue that Muslims working to implement Islam are “a threat to national security and should be deported or detained for life.”

In the interview, Solvang asks the SIAN leader to explain who he is referring to here, and asks Thorsen to give examples of specific people whom he would refer to as “good Muslims.” It was here that Thorsen, among other things, named the MDG politician and former Islamic Council leader Shoaib Sultan and mentioned Ghozlan as people who should be deported.

Thorsen also suggested that Ghozlan holds a leadership position in the political and religious organization The Muslim Brotherhood.

Complaints to the Broadcasting Council

– I do not represent any Islamic organization and I am not a public figure. I have my day job at the Center for Human Rights, says Larsen.

Larsen was the leader of the Islamic Council from 2000 to 2003, but has since worked to withdraw from the public and pursue an academic career, he says. Now he wants to appeal the program to the Broadcasting Council.

– As was the premise, I had nothing to do on the show. That is my main point. The second is that they subsequently spoke generally about freedom of expression and did not address the issues that emerged. It cannot be denied that the people are suspects and should be deported. I do not understand that it is necessary to use people as victims to make SIAN’s point, he says.

Basim Ghozlan dons the SIAN mantle that gave him his name.

– I think it’s good that SIAN and its rhetoric get naked. Some people think that NRK made a mistake by giving them a platform, but I think it was time to reveal the seriousness of this hatred that is spreading, Ghozlan tells VG.

Lena Larsen adds that host Solvang has obviously done his homework and read about what SIAN writes and stands for, but then thinks the show doesn’t get to the heart of the problem.

– Do you think SIAN should not have been invited?

– No. We agree one hundred percent on the principle of freedom of expression. But the subject should have been better addressed: the razor’s edge between free speech and hate speech.

– Important and correct

VG has directed questions to NRK and Solvang about the debate. Solvang is referring to the editor of the news division, Knut Magnus Berge, and he himself has not responded to VG’s questions.

– We had a debate on the outer limit of freedom of expression and we thought it was a point to follow what SIAN really stands for. In that context, some names of public figures that he believes should be detained and deported, and we think that was illustrative of how extreme his opinions are, Berge tells VG.

– These people weren’t even present to defend themselves?

– These are names of public figures, and the purpose was to illustrate to the public the extreme opinions that SIAN has. In that sense, I think it was effective, and I haven’t seen any of them react negatively in that regard.

– Lena Larsen is a former leader of the Islamic Council and as such a public figure. The point of the question was precisely to get an answer to where SIAN imagined deporting someone with her record. I think the debate we had yesterday was important and correct and very demanding, and I think Fredrik managed to illustrate the scope of SIAN, says Berge.

– Solvang repeatedly asks if Thorsen could give examples of people who are “good Muslims.” Was requesting this planned in advance?

– What was planned was to illustrate the ideas of SIAN. It wasn’t our plan to make a list of threatened people, but it was one way to get their opinions out, Berge says.

It adds that it welcomes a complaint to the Broadcasting Council and that it is a good setting to discuss the limits of freedom of expression.

Used to be taken out

Shoaib Sultan tells VG that he perceives the statements as “quite harassing”, and that he is used to being hanged; he’s very upset on behalf of Ghozlan and Larsen.

– Exactly that I would like to be without him. Solvang gave me an apology on Twitter, and I’m glad about that, but I wish Basim Ghozlan and Lena Larsen would get this too. SIAN makes accusations that they belong to the Muslim Brotherhood, without this being countered, Sultan tells VG.

On Thursday night, Sultan wrote on Facebook that he is concerned that the organization will have time to speak at the “Debate” and what they may inspire others to do.

The sultan says that he is used to being pushed forward by SIAN and therefore does not react much.

– I see the host is trying to nail down what SIAN says and what it means, and I understand the grip. In my head, it’s a bigger problem that you let SIAN have something to say, and when you do it for the first time, it’s okay for them to get naked this way, he says.

The leader of the Anti-Racist Center, Rune Berglund Steen, believes that the request for the names of the people was risky.

– There were several named individuals who were listed here as individuals to be detained and deported. It can be burdensome and obviously defamatory, although not in the legal sense. They were not given a chance to respond and were not allowed to defend themselves, Steen tells VG.

Steen himself was a panelist, and after the interview he described Thorsen’s characteristics of the Sultan as “shameless.”

– I think you should think a little more about this question. The strategy to strip SIAN in the interview I think it worked, but I really miss that someone really reacts to what was said during the interview. There is a minister of justice, a police director and a party leader here, and nobody reacts to any of that. It’s quite shocking, he says.