Lukashenko’s main rival: we were certainly not prepared for such a scenario

Today, more than 400,000 have already been raised to support his candidacy in the elections. Firms Most recently, the country’s current president, Alexander Lukashenko, launched a new series of accusations against a rival, reinforcing his words with the arrest of top executives at Belgazprombank.

On Thursday it was announced that V. Babarika and his son Eduard were arrested and turned over to the Financial Investigation Department.

The political team is announcing a broadcast scheduled for Friday night that is expected to take place regardless of whether the potential candidate himself will be able to stand for the presidential elections in Belarus, reports naviny.by.

“This morning, Eduard and Viktor went to add another portion of the collected signatures. We cannot contact them at this time, the phones are off. The Department of Financial Investigation does not open the door, does not comment,” say representatives of the potential candidate. presidential.

“In any case, this Friday at 7 pm we invite you to watch our weekly broadcast. We have been preparing for a long time and will publish an important report on our next steps, regardless of whether Viktor and Eduard will be together,” the representatives stated in the politician’s account.

V. Babarik’s team claims that 425,000 have already been collected. The signatures of those who support your candidacy.

Delphi publishes an interview with V. Babarik, which was conducted on June 12.

– Viktor Dmitrijevich, on June 12, it became clear that the coordinator of his initiative group in the Mogilev region had been arrested, after a search in Belgazprombank. Tell me, were you prepared for so much pressure when you decided to run for the presidential election?

– Good day. I would say yes. We consider the option of using force methods. But frankly, we thought it would be different. We thought that at first it would take action against me, the leaders of my staff, and then, if it became too small, it would expand into a larger circle of people.

It turns out that everything is backwards. He started to panic picking up all the variants he had just thought about, so that only from what I could understand, he would find at least some compromising material before me. If there were any, it would be very easy to destroy me. Now he is desperately searching in all possible directions. The most unexpected thing was that it touched even my friends, the closest friends who have absolutely nothing to do with this situation.

Those arrests, in my opinion, testify to two important things.

First, it is the fear of change that the current government feels.

The second is that there are no direct hooks in my direction. And trying to find them. Just imagine the situation: there is a bank in the country that I have operated for 20 years, it has been reviewed many times, it is one of the best banks. Everything was quiet, peaceful, no problem. And suddenly he fired. Turns out there was an empire. Where have they been before? How did you miss it, how did you not notice such a big monster?

So in summary, now you are creating that monster.
The impression is that my current situation is the inverse of COVID-19. The virus was said to be very small, invisible to the naked eye, so it could do whatever it wanted. And now the situation is completely different.

Now we will create a huge monster that will occupy not only the entire country but also its neighbors as far as I understand. He appears to have been monitored for a long time, but no one took any action and for some reason he started acting at this time.

Here we certainly were not prepared for such a scenario. But we reoriented ourselves very quickly. Today, we already know what must be done to continue our activities, continue the fight to obtain registration and participate in the presidential elections of August 9.

– Our MEP Petras Auštrevičius, who speaks very often about Belarus, spoke about the initiative to impose sanctions on Belarusian officials. Specifically, regarding the arrests of activists and everything that is currently happening in Belarus. Do you think such an initiative, such declarations from European structures, can benefit you?

– I think that any initiative that supports the democratic process and the elections of Belarusians will certainly be beneficial. We plan to bring this situation to the attention of the international community here. Broadly speaking Not necessarily just the European Union. All the communities in the world. Because there is a feeling that the right to speak on behalf of the entire nation is usurped by a small group of people. And the worst thing is that we are not yet talking about elections.

And already at this stage, threatening blood, shooting, such words rang from the lips of the country’s president, that we will shoot, we will remind everyone of thousands of deaths … And now this conflict, an attempt to punish everyone in a row, including enterprising people, those who demonstrated the simplest position.

Of course, we need all the help and support. We want publicity, we want as many observers as possible at our headquarters. That the cases that are now being initiated do not go beyond the law. And he didn’t put on the shoes in a hurry. I don’t know what awaits us, I don’t know the pressure now on the detainees.

I wouldn’t rule out any method they can take so that only those people condemn themselves and those close to them. In my opinion, any action can be expected.

The only thing we have always encouraged is that we are on the peaceful course of events and respect for the law.

We urge all who are forced to participate in all this to remember that it will no longer be possible to arrest the people of the country on August 9, or perhaps not on August 9. That Belarus, as it used to be, no longer exists. She is already different. And that different Belarus, the real one, is very intimidating for the authorities. I think the government is not one or two people. These are people. And they also need to understand that the law is above everything.

Therefore, if someone in this area helps us, helps stop or reject unjustified actions, we are ready to accept that help, in any way.

– A traditional question for all candidates for the post of President of Belarus, as it is one of the most discussed topics in Lithuania. How do you evaluate the Astrave nuclear plant project? As president, how would you resolve disagreements that obscure relations between Belarus and Lithuania?

– In my opinion, it should be very clear that the decisions made about this nuclear power plant, its construction, compliance with safety measures raise questions and disagreements, opinions differ. And yet, the current situation with the elections. Still, it speaks to the fact that there is great risk, given that a nuclear power plant that poses a real danger to people is in the hands of people who are not bored and are not entirely suitable.

I believe that the new people who come to power should hold an international forum to make a decision that is acceptable to all. Is international. It should include representatives not only from Belarus and Russia, but also from other interested and at-risk countries. If we leave Belarus face to face with this situation, there are very few possible options for the situation.

Or we have to give away 10 billion. dollars or how many loans. And that money cannot be taken anywhere. Or just run that nuclear power plant to get at least part of that economic benefit.

I don’t have the correct answer at the moment. I don’t think anyone has it. I only know that Belarus should seek this answer together with international experts. It is possible to discuss the situation, assess it, make sure that the power plant is safe for everyone. Or to negotiate mortgage foreclosure terms that are acceptable to everyone, there are many options for debt restructuring.

Lithuania has experience in closing the Ignalina nuclear power plant. It seems to me that the decision taken as a whole is fairer and more optimal.

– And how do you think Belarus should have international relations? What does not seem appropriate to you in the current status quo, what should be corrected in relations with the world, the European Union and Lithuania?

– The first thing I do not like very much, and which has become one of the main reasons for deciding to participate in the presidential elections, is that Belarus has so far been unable to build its own independent economy. I mean that for some reason everything is aligned in such a way that all of our unions are somehow suspiciously dependent.

It seems that wherever we go, that map number 31 (talking about integration negotiations with Russia) is everywhere, which is an inevitable loss of sovereignty.

And I believe that any union should contribute to the preservation of the state as such and its prosperity. If you have already chosen one or another union, the European Union is a very good example. Furthermore, it is far from being liked by all, but it guarantees a level playing field for all Member States to renounce part of their sovereignty.

Therefore, I personally am in favor of any union that does not primarily involve a renunciation of Belarusian sovereignty. The second important thing is that it does not push Belarus into the position of a dependent country. Unions must be as diversified as possible.

The third important thing, extremely important thing, is that that Union must really be a real economic benefit for Belarus.

We are aware that the world is becoming increasingly global. We know and understand that Belarus is part of Europe. The current policy is declared multi-vector, when in fact everything is in one door.

– Belarus is part of Europe, you say. But here you have a neighbor, Russia. How does Belarus maneuver between the Russian Federation and the European Union, given that their opinions differ radically on most issues? What should Belarus focus on when choosing?

– Let’s be clear, this is important. Geographically, Europe is as you imagine it, and what it means to me. For example, for me, Europe on the map is up to the Ural Mountains. This means that Europe is a very broad concept. Europe is sometimes considered to be the western part of Belarus. And the Europe that is in the south or in the east is no longer Europe. And it really is Europe.

Therefore, in my opinion, Belarus’s orientation towards Europe is an orientation in all directions. We will always discuss with you, especially with Lithuania, which is the center of Europe. This is a story about Belarus being a Central European country. If so, unions must be sought in all directions. And, as I said, a direction is clear in that union, and that must change.

– You correctly described European geography, but the question was about the geopolitical context.

– We must follow the principle, declared long ago by Henry John Temple in Palmerston: England has no permanent enemies and allies, only permanent interests. So I want to say that it would be limited to think that this or that country could be a permanent ally or enemy of England. We have no permanent allies or permanent enemies. Only our interests are constant and eternal, and it is our duty to respect them.

Lately we have heard from most of the politicians, first of all, from my country. I think this is the right approach, the right message. Your country’s interests are first and foremost, and if so, compromises must be sought. I have already said that one-sidedness is unacceptable to me. I just don’t think the only compromise is to choose white or red.

Compensation is a search for win-win strategies. And in this regard, Belarus is very cool. There have been times in Belarusian history when there was Catholicism and Orthodoxy in neighboring countries, and Belarusians chose to be Unitarians.

– And what do you think about the union state of Russia and Belarus in this case?

– If we talk about the agreement signed in 1999, then, as a person in the business world, I have before me a rather strange project that has existed for 21 years and that is not coming to fruition. I can hardly imagine that such a project could be relevant.

The world is already so advanced that it might make sense to look at it from a 2020 perspective, to understand what’s left of it, that’s where the topic of discussion lies. We need to look at the so-called 31st map (speaking of integration negotiations with Russia – note ed.). I have not seen that agreement. Any agreement can and should be reviewed through the prism of its relevance, evaluated in the current context.

– In previous interviews and even now you say that Belarus must become a neutral state. There has been such an attempt in the history of Lithuania. Only practice has shown that nothing good has come of it. Why do you think this would be a success story?

– And without the history of Lithuania, there have been such examples. Switzerland was successful. So, suppose the current score is 1: 1. Maybe Belarus will succeed, so let’s try it.

– Switzerland has banks. And what can make Belarus exceptional?

– In Switzerland, banks have emerged as neutrality instruments. This means that they offered everyone to store the most expensive resources. And in the 21st century, the most valuable thing is the data center. Belarus is a huge and unique country with favorable geographical conditions, there are no earthquakes here. Let’s turn the country into a global data center. And Belarus will be neutral, and everyone will be able to say: defend and protect our data center, ensure that neutrality for the country.

Belarus: a unique high-tech country. We have very strong IT professionals. The country is huge, with a population of 9 million. people, the population density is relatively low. Let’s develop our neutrality. Welcome to the!

– It is widely believed that the sovereignty of Belarus is threatened by the economic situation. Where do you think these threats are specifically located?

– Belarus is economically dependent. We see a mistaken idea of ​​our economy, our miracle, believing that the country is missing between 3 and 5 billion. dollars, which we still have and which have compensated us all the time, whether for the price of energy resources, or for financing, or for other privileges, is our merit, our resources, we will always have it.

This situation has led to the fact that when the owner of an oil resource suddenly takes and changes his opinion or decision, we realize that our economic situation is difficult. That means we can no longer pay the $ 127 price for gas …

Those numbers are basically irrelevant. We understand that we are missing between 3 and 5 billion. dollars to be lured from somewhere else. This means that anyone who can change the conditions of supply of this resource can, in a sense, impose their will on Belarus.

The loss of sovereignty is then possible. I don’t say exactly what, I say, nobody. If we fail to balance the economy, the threat, of course, will remain. I think we can still do that. I know how to do it.

– Lukashenko is widely believed to be reluctant to undertake economic reforms, as his success will lead to the formation of a large private company, the middle class, which will jeopardize his political existence. Do you agree with that opinion?

– I’ll say the opposite. No matter who gets the active power, Belarus is a different country. She is no longer that … Unfortunately, the authorities are mistakenly mistaken in believing that they will return the Belarusians to their former state through intimidation or deception.

We can talk about the changes by looking at the formation of a civil society that has been able to meet the challenges of COVID-19. Authorities said there was no virus. And civil society has been able to organize its own protection system for its people.

And it was an incredible discovery for the Belarusians themselves: that they were a force. You can defend yourself. And it marked a step towards a new phase, with the appearance of strong leaders, new faces in the fight for the country’s presidency. Belarusians continue to develop. Authorities have forgotten that Belarusians can apply for a long time.

Belarusians like a spring. It can be pressed for a long time, but it will fire, it has already started preparing for it, it is no longer possible to press it. One can only try to stay tight, just that.

The future of the Belarusians is now only in the hands of the Belarusians themselves. And that scares the current government more. And even if it’s still possible to change the rhetoric and say yes, please, private businesses, all of them, but you won’t stop the process.

They don’t understand that. Perhaps what is happening explains it in its own way. Or, on the contrary, he understands it and opposes it with all his strength. Only those efforts, in my opinion, are in vain. Changes are not personified. Babarika, Cepkala, Tichanovsky, or anyone else, or Lukashenko. We need to talk about a new Belarusian society. In our new self-perception. The important thing is that people remembered being valuable in their own right. You will no longer push such a society.

– I would suggest going back to the elections in Belarus. Don’t you regret from today’s perspective that you decided to run? After all, now the President of Belarus, Alexander Lukashenko, announces to all the alleged opponents against Belarus.

– I can say with certainty that I have no other choice after yesterday. We will win. It’s just a matter of time. And I’m not talking about those five years. The question is whether we will win on August 9. I do not rule out the possibility, if the action against the people continues, which will continue until August 9. Nor do I rule out such options.

Well, in any case, and for sure here, the elections of 2025 will take place in another Belarus. This is not the last term for itself. These are the changes. The only question is when and how they will happen. Most importantly, how. You asked about help from the international community, just don’t bleed. That would be my call for everyone. God forbid, the blood will be spilled. And yet I think it should be clear to people who obey the commandments that they should not obey the illegal commandments. Take sides with the law, and things will be different.

– I have noticed that Mr. Lukashenko often uses that rhetoric as if he were a candidate for pro-Russian positions. In his case, it is based on the fact that he ran Belgazprombank. What does it mean to have a pro-Russian position in Belarus, a negative factor? Shameful?

– We have already discussed this. In principle, the actions of the current government are not logically explained. Therefore, I have no comments. As if he had no comment and statement “the virus is invisible, so it does not exist.”

The Russia-Belarus union agreement was signed by the current President of Belarus, not by me, and neither candidate. And here we have raised this agreement, the will, and now Russia is like the greatest enemy, and the Russian bank is the greatest monster of all. I can’t explain it by common sense, in any way. I only have one word: insufficiency.

– What are the chances that people will go out if Lukashenko is declared the winner? What will you do? On the one hand, the impression is that neither you nor Mr Cepkala nor Mr Tikhaniovsky have practically no political experience. Will the hard work available be enough to overcome this situation?

– I think there is some contradiction in your question. If the people of Belarus take to the streets, they will go out alone, they will no longer need leaders. Another issue is whether the leaders will date the people. So I always say that I don’t want to invite people to the plaza.

I tell you with great confidence: if the Belarusians come out, I will go out with them. And it doesn’t matter who invites whom. Belarusians will choose for themselves. And it is important to be with them. And don’t try to resist his will, shoot, chase him. Belarusians can now make their own decision. And we will know that decision on August 9.

– How do you evaluate the probability or possibility of a force scenario that people will take to the streets and Russia will intervene at a critical moment?

– I will start with the second part of the question. I am not talking about Russia. In principle, I am talking about external interference. Belarusians are a very independent nation. There are no harmful internal contradictions in the country that require the force of external participation to resolve. We do not have controversial territories, there are no discussions on issues that can divide society.

Of course, there are differences between eastern and western Belarus, northern and southern. Only those regional differences are very small. We are a united nation.

If such a question sometimes arises for a group of people who have acquired the right to speak on behalf of the entire Belarusian nation, I think our nation will easily deal with them. And the last. Still, I think the people who give the orders, the top officials, will understand, already understand what a criminal order is.

They will not shoot defenseless people.

I know many officials, I know those people are honorable. He remembers the oath he has taken to serve Belarus and the people of Belarus. So it seems to me that there are very few people who obey one person. Most officials in power structures will certainly not go against their own people.

Can you remind me of the 2010 events at the Plaza. Alone, you realize, no matter how frustrating it may be, no matter how many people have been there, there was not a quarter of a million. And the majority of the electorate, if they are only going to vote against the current government, is a quarter of a million people.

Many people have never been out on the streets. Even if half a million comes out, I think it will be enough.

– It’s true, about criminal orders. What fate awaits Mr. Lukashenko if he is not, for example, elected President on August 9? There have been a number of publications that Mr. Lukashenko has related to the disappearance of people. Is it worth forgetting or investigating?

– Everything must be in accordance with the law. An investigation is required by law. If you are guilty, you must respond in accordance with the law. If you have not violated the law, which can only be established by a court, only a fair and impartial court, the innocent should not be punished. It doesn’t matter what the media writes.

– The registration of candidates for the presidential elections will end soon. How do you rate your chances of registering? And what will you do if you are not registered?

– July 14 is the last day of registration. What are we going to do? One of the few strengths of the current government is that it rarely cheats. Sometimes we don’t listen to it, sometimes we misinterpret it. But she rarely cheats. Recently, the head of government said he would not interfere with registration for unofficial reasons. That means there are official reasons. Because of them and maybe not registered before. But now the tone is to act in accordance with official law.

In this case, there is no reason not to register. We have analyzed the law and all its nuances so thoroughly that this is a very clear example of our task: in the first stage we collected almost 10,000. initiative group of people. Only two responded negatively. I think it is sufficient proof that we are ready for the next stage. We already have more than 400 thousand. firms, from which 100 thousand can be selected. shows.

We have chosen the method of presentation in such a way that our signatures are not removed, modified or made. We take into account all the nuances.

And if you’ve already promised not to respond for unofficial reasons, all that remains is a method that, at least for now, is feasible. Efforts are being made to create a situation in which it is no longer possible to rely on official criteria. But, as I said, and we have solutions for that, they are already being implemented today.