Islamism: “Turkey is increasingly moving away from Europe”

ALexander Schallenberg, 51, welcomes you to his office on Minoritenplatz, in the heart of Vienna. The Austrian capital was rocked by a terrorist attack this week. These are tense times for the Chancellor, there is much to talk about: the terrible events in Vienna, but also the elections in the United States and the policy towards Turkey.

WORLD: Minister, does the slow counting of votes in the United States also irritate you?

Alexander Schallenberg: It’s no wonder that it was very exciting, or that we have to be patient. The fact that the electoral authorities work so meticulously and precisely shows that they carry out their responsible task with the necessary seriousness. Sometimes democracy just takes time. It is in everyone’s interest that the result withstands all challenges.

WORLD: What has to change from a European perspective after the Trump presidency?

Schallenberg: We, like Europe, cannot want an inward-looking America, a navel-gazing America. We need you as a strong partner that has an external impact and is internationally active. What we already know now, regardless of who eventually moves into the White House, Europe should move to the US Our goal should be to make the North Atlantic a little smaller again.

WORLD: This week there was an Islamist terrorist attack in Vienna with five deaths and numerous injuries. What do you expect from European partners in the fight against political Islam?

Schallenberg: Together with our European partners, we must send a very clear message: Political Islam has no place in Europe. Vienna’s cowardly and despicable act painfully demonstrates that no country is immune from such attacks.

WORLD: Numerous jihadists disguised as migrants could reach Europe via Turkey and Libya. More terror threatens. What to do?

Schallenberg: We must intensify exchange with our European and international partners, also with regard to the identification and monitoring of potential threats. Terrorists are very well connected, we need to be even better connected. At the same time, as Chancellor Kurz also said, we must make it clear that this is not a conflict between people of different religions or of different origins. It is a struggle between people who believe in peace, democracy and the rights and dignity of every human being and the few who do not. We will not give in to terror. There is no neutrality towards terrorism.

WORLD: The EU has long disagreed with Turkey. Only recently, the Europeans again harshly condemned the country for “unilateral action in the eastern Mediterranean” in the search for natural gas. Hasn’t Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan Europe been dancing in the meantime?

Schallenberg: It must be clear to all parties that claims on gas reserves and maritime borders can only be resolved at the negotiating table or before the International Court of Justice and not by military means.

WORLD: But Ankara initially withdrew its ships, including a military ship, off Cyprus, only to send them back a few days later to investigate gas reserves.

Schallenberg: We must not be naïve and fooled by President Erdogan’s tricks. We are clearly on the side of Cyprus and Greece. There can be no doubt about it. It cannot be that Turkey is trying to create facts with a military presence in the region. On the other hand, we must do everything possible to enter into negotiations between the two parties.

WORLD: Natural gas reserves in the eastern Mediterranean are not the only construction site relative to Turkey. Ankara still smuggles heavy weapons into Libya today. Furthermore, Erdogan called for a boycott of French products due to Paris criticism of political Islam, described the French president as deranged and also tried to unleash a worldwide wave of Islamic outrage against France. How much longer can Europe accept that?

Schallenberg: As a first step, we have already imposed sanctions on Turkish companies and citizens who participated in illegal natural gas exploration in the eastern Mediterranean.

WORLD: It’s enough? Athens recently called for an arms embargo against Turkey. The leader of the European Conservatives (EPP) in the EU Parliament, Manfred Weber, has also proposed the suspension of the customs union with Turkey.

Schallenberg: I am glad that there is a growing awareness in the EU that we have reached a turning point in relations with Turkey. Ankara is very adept at escalating or decreasing depending on the mood within the EU or before important decisions by member states. The EU must counter this yo-yo policy in Turkey not only with clear words but also with concrete actions. There is hardly another EU member state whose line here is as clear as Austria’s. We are therefore ready to talk about all the proposals that allow us, as the EU, to clearly show Turkey the red lines.

WORLD: Turkey has been a candidate for EU membership for years. Will the country be a member of the Union in 30 years?

Schallenberg: No, I don’t see that. Austria has long held the view that the accession talks, already frozen, must also formally end completely. Both parties, the EU and Turkey, know that the accession negotiations will not really lead to anything. Turkey is moving further and further away from Europe, as confirmed by the latest progress report from the EU Commission on enlargement. The Ankara government has been trampling on the so-called Copenhagen criteria, such as the rule of law and respect for human rights, compliance with which would be essential for accession, for years. No, we should now start working on a tailored partnership that serves the interests of both parties.

World: Besides Erdogan, the Belarusian ruler Lukashenko is a challenge for Europeans. He lost the election, but remains in office and has been beating the opposition movement for weeks. How should Brussels react?

Schallenberg: Europeans should help enable free and fair elections in Belarus and also accompany the process there. We cannot make the mistake of saying: we know who will lead Belarus.

WORLD: But how can that work if the power apparatus in Minsk continues to act so brutally?

Schallenberg: There has to be an inclusive national dialogue. The solution is in Minsk, it cannot come from Brussels or Moscow. It is important that opposition politicians can return to Belarus without having to fear violence. Violence on the street must finally end. The only solution is at the negotiating table. But this has to be a real and sincere dialogue, not a fake dialogue. It must be clear to the Minsk rulers: this crisis cannot be set aside. A return to the status quo is out of the question. The spirit of change has escaped from the bottle and can no longer be rejected.

WORLD: However, there are still mass arrests and torture of peaceful protesters. The rulers do not appear to be impressed by the Brussels sanctions against Lukashenko’s supporters.

Schallenberg: The previous sanctions against Belarus are a warning. But from the beginning they had the potential to turn up the heat. EU foreign ministers have clearly stated that gradual sanctions are possible.

WORLD: Besides penalties, what else can help?

Schallenberg: We have agreed to recalibrate EU funds for a total of € 53 million to support civil society. The money is intended to benefit non-governmental organizations, youth and independent media. Above all, it must be about reaching out to civil society. We must prevent a new Iron Curtain from being drawn in Belarus.

WORLD: Putin is behind Lukashenko. Does the EU need a new policy on Russia?

Schallenberg: What former German Foreign Minister Steinmeier said remains true: There will be no sustainable security and stability against Russia, only with Russia. We have to keep the dialogue going, but at the same time, possibly even more clearly than before, clearly show our red lines. Russia will always be our neighbor. But clearly we are no longer on the same side of the river in terms of our way of life, our values ​​and our political approach.

WORLD: Will Russia and China put Europe under even greater pressure in the future?

Schallenberg: You have to know that our model of life based on values ​​is only represented by a quarter of the members of the United Nations (UN). Freedom is in danger on our planet. Europe will certainly be under pressure. We need to know where we are. If we want our children and grandchildren to grow up in a free and democratic world, we must not cross certain red lines in our cooperation with Russia and China.

WORLD: What could Europeans use as a lever?

Schallenberg: The EU is the second largest trading bloc and the largest donor in the world. We can have confidence.