When the 2020 Emmy Award nominees were announced on Tuesday (July 28) morning, few were surprised that the critically acclaimed science fiction drama HBO Watchers was the leader of the pack. Between WatchersThe 26 nominations were two in the music categories, meaning that Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross have earned their first Emmy Award.
Over the past decade, Reznor and Ross’ movie scores have demonstrated a malleable mastery of styles, conquering skeptics who thought the boys of Nine Inch Nails should get on with their daily jobs. But after winning an Oscar (for The social network in 2011) and Grammy gold (The girl with the dragon tattoo in 2012) for the duo, it is clear that they are bringing unpredictable musical vitality to what can often be a fairly simple field to paint by numbers. For example, not only Watchers win an ‘Outstanding Musical Composition for a Limited Series, Movie, or Special (Original Dramatic Score)’ nod to the series’ throbbing and foreboding electronic score, but “The Way Used to be”, its “Can’t Believe” No It’s an authentic take on a big band ballad from the 1940s – set up for great original music and lyrics.
In the middle of the closing work of the next movie Mank about under-sung Citizen Kane screenwriter Herman J. Mankiewicz, Reznor and Ross jumped on the phone to talk about the “high wire act” he was scoring Watchers, how the ego fueled his work and why this particular project was “exhausting” but ultimately a “dream”.
Congratulations on some good news during these times. Were you surprised to see it, or to consider that you already have an Oscar as a team, was part of that as “well, this makes sense”?
Trent Reznor: Honestly, we don’t think much about the awards side. We really immerse ourselves in work and try to do the best we can. I think we have learned years ago releasing records, it is that moment when you know it is finished and the best it can be, that is the moment when you cannot wait for people to listen to it. With an album you never know what will happen, if it will be ignored or praised, and we have taken that process with us to the world of scores. You expect people to respond, but it’s out of your reach. Having had the experience that it breaks your heart or that something is not received so well or that the movies are ignored, it can contaminate your impression of the work you did on it.
It is a form of self-preservation: we see it as “come what may, come.” That said, it feels good, especially when it’s something you have a lot of skin with in the game and that’s the case with Watchers. The experience of doing Watchers and working with [creator] Damon [Lindelof] and being challenged by the team and getting to know the team and the amazingness of the material and the risk at all levels, taking on this sacred IP, the things that I was trying to do in terms of race relations, nothing seemed certain. It felt like a high voltage cable to the end. But it was fun, and it feels great to see him get the recognition he deserves. We are proud to be part of that team and to uphold their end of the bargain.
“High wire act” is a great way to put it. I’m a huge fan of the graphic novel and was amazed at how well the series hits these different tones and story lines. But with music so front and center, that must have been a huge challenge.
TR: Like you, we love the graphic novel; It is part of our DNA. We also have great admiration and faith in Damon Lindelof. And when those two got together, we reached out to HBO to say, “Hey, raising your hand, we’d love to be a part of this.” We go into that with that feeling of [being] Sure, but we had no idea where the story would lead. Even to the point where when we were working on it, we didn’t have all nine episodes [in hand]; We only knew the first ones we started with. There were many twists and turns and challenges thrown at us. It never got boring, let’s say it like that.
Atticus Ross: It is both exhausting and a dream project. But being a fan of the graphic novel and watching that first episode, you knew that Damon had done the graphic novel justice and was carrying the same torch in 2019.
Seeing the entire series, was there any moment that you found especially brilliant as a fan?
TR: I’m still not at the point where I can be objective. We saw it a hundred times before it came out. When he came out, we were watching him and we were amazed at how prophetic he has become with this sad state of affairs in America right now. In general, thinking about it, you still have that: you know, when you listen to music, it tends to connect you emotionally with a place or experience. Certain songs remind me of when I was eight years old listening to them at my parents’ house. [place], whatever it is. This really does that in several ways. It is a place where we miss being immersed: that adrenaline of the next episode that arrives and these characters that we like very much and the team that worked on it.
Arkansas: I don’t have a particular favorite moment because I remember being surprised by every episode, even after reading the script with the sophistication of the narrative involved. In terms of a story about a story about a story that addresses the biggest issues facing our country right now, I don’t know if it can take a bigger turn than that. And it was remarkable that it landed. But it was like Trent said, when I think about it, I miss him a little bit. That was the main thing. It does not mean that we are not inspired by what we are doing now, but that will always be a special experience as far as I am concerned.
“The Way It Used to Be” garnered a separate Emmy nomination. It’s such a compelling jazz lounge throwback, that people online were looking for it like it was a real song of the time.
TR: That was one of those things. They asked me the other day, “What is the difference between working in movies and working on television?” Not have had television experience. [before this] I mistakenly thought, “Well, it’s like a nine-hour movie.” But we don’t have scripts for later episodes when we start. We have a vague understanding [of where it goes] but some of them are kept secret, so we’re starting our end of the ship with a general idea of where it might end, but we’re not sure. So you have to be a little faster than in a movie where you know where everything is going to happen and when it is going to happen; It has been orchestrated.
So “The way it used to be” came up pretty late in the process. We were getting to that episode, we worked more or less chronologically. We had gained respect and a level of comfort, we had become friends with Damon and the team. Now, what might have started as a feeling – “hey, could uh …” – had been replaced by a familiarity and confidence of “you can do this or that.” Or we could say, “It’s not music, but I really think the scene falls out the way it was edited.” It felt like you were part of a team. So as that comfort level progressed and we got to episode six, which had always been one that they had marked as important and that they were proud of, it hit a major roadblock. They had planned to tempt a piece of music for the lynching scene, but there were licensing issues because the publishers didn’t want that song, their song, any song, to be related to those images. So within about a week [they asked] “Do you think you could write a song that could have the same weight as this piece?” It had a haunting quality and needed to feel the period and be indistinguishable from an authentic 1940s song. Ideally, the lyrics could work juxtaposed, listening to what might be perceived as a love song in contrast to this horrible image. “Could you consider writing something that can do all of that? And can we have it in a week?” And it wasn’t as if everything else was done and we were sitting waiting for the Emmy time: we were trying to keep our heads above water with the other workload on our plate.
I think of the example in that question as something that leads us to work with scoring. It is very different from a rock band, from Nine Inch Nails. The good thing about this, and it can also be terrible, is that it is unlikely in my normal job that I will be asked, “Could I write an arrangement for a large band of a song, and can it be done with high stakes in a limited amount of? hour?” It puts you in an area where “okay, let’s think about how we can do this.” He had been absorbing a lot of music from that time somehow in preparation for the project that was to follow. Watchers, which we are finishing now, the movie Mank, which is exactly the same period of time. So I was in the moonlight, absorbing that period of time. Damon’s initial response was “give us the weekend and we’ll be able to tell if it’s likely or not.” And the poles lined up, inspiration hit and we were able to put together a demo that looked like it could be good, and then we were able to organize it properly.
I’ll admit that the ego comes into play as a driving factor sometimes while we’re working. When asked, we thought, “Man, wouldn’t it be great if we could accomplish this? Being the team member that got this rabbit out of the hat.” And we did it and we are proud of what we did there. In the vast sea of song candidates for Emmys, we thought it was too deep for them to notice, so it’s a pleasant surprise to see it.
Trent, I have to say, this is a great TV arc for you. Strong copy Research 30 years ago to be an Emmy nominated songwriter.
[chuckles] I thought that was the pinnacle.