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Following the failed poison attack on Alexei Navalny, the Russian opposition member called one of the suspected killers. Journalist Christo Grozev made this remarkable conversation possible.
Alexei Navalny (right) calls the alleged agent. Christo Grozev (left) listens.
Photo: Screenshot (Youtube / Alexei Nawalny)
The Russian national secret service FSB describes Nawalny’s telephone conversation with an FSB agent who apparently wanted to kill him as false. Is right?
No, the phone call is real. We filmed it. Nothing was changed in the recording. We have put the video of the 49 minute interview online as it is.
In the video, he can be seen with Navalny. What was your role?
My colleagues and I from the Bellingcat research platform had the names andthat is to say Data found on FSB team members who, according to our investigation, wanted to poison Navalny with Novichok. For the call, I installed an application where the called person sees an incorrect phone number, in this case the landline number of an FSB unit. During the conversation I listened and obtained information for my later work.
Did that work on the first try?
No. We previously called five alleged accomplices, but Navalny reported sMe under his real name: “Hello, this is Navalny, why did you want to kill me?” The reaction was only silence. So he changed his strategy and called with a false identity, as an assistant to a senior Russian Kremlin official who was gathering information about his boss’s failed operation.
Was it believed?
On the first try, the called party replied, “I know exactly who you are” and hung up. We were lucky on the second try.
But this alleged agent was not directly involved in the attack in the city of Tomsk?
In the movie “Pulp Fiction” there is the character of Mister Wolf who “solves problems”. That was obviously this man. After the plane carrying the poisoned Navalny made an emergency landing in Omsk and the victim received first aid at the hospital, our investigation came to clear up the traces. And we believe that as early as January 2017 he was a member of a detachment that wanted to poison Navalny.
“Neither of us could believe what we heard.”
During the phone conversation, Navalny repeatedly claimed that he had received “orders from above” to re-discuss the action with Novichok. Has your interlocutor apparently bought it for you?
I was surprised by the precision with which Navalny was able to imitate the FSB’s military tone. You probably knew him well from your youth: your father was in the army.
Navalny spoke to a man for almost 50 minutes who apparently wanted to kill him, and yet he remained calm in his role. How did you react after the conversation?
He was extremely tired, we had been trying to have these conversations since 4am. Tiredness probably helped him not show any emotion. It worked like a robot. Then went to sleep, and first when he got up again around noon he showed epcsTatic, but also shocked at the same time. Neither of us could believe what we were doing belongs had.
And did you have a movie clip for proof?
Navalny films almost everything, what he does for his youtube channel. We were also planning a documentary. But we didn’t expect the phone call to give us new information.
“The conversation gave us new information”: Alexei Navalny in front of the photos of the alleged assassin squad.
Photo: Screenshot (Youtube / Alexei Nawalny)
Posting the conversation could have dire consequences for the agent on the other end of the line. Was it discussed?
There was no moral dilemma for Navalny. Ultimately, he was the target of an assassination attempt. But no state wants to investigate your case. Neither Russia nor Germany. So Navalny has to investigate himself, also calling under a false name. Still, we argued for almost a week before deciding: There is a public interest in the phone conversation: Russia and the world must know that this Russian assassinmeteraschine really exists.
What do you like aboutnorth FSB statements man particularly surprised?
At Bellingcat, we only discovered the names and movement profiles of Nawalny’s pursuers through data analysis. Now I got the live confirmation from someone involved. He also mentioned other names on his team that we didn’t know yet.
The Kremlin claims that Bellingcat has received information from Western intelligence agencies. Is that correct?
No. We do our researchmeteralways public methods. Telephone data is much less protected in Russia than in the West. You can get them for free online or buy them at a moderate price. This has even been confirmed by Russian media that are not opposed to the Kremlin.
Navalny will return to Russia. And very soon “.
It was first said that traces of Novichok had been found in water bottles in Navalny’s hotel room in Tomsk. During the phone call, the man says the poison was in Navalny’s underpants. A contradiction?
In the phone conversation it was heard that the greatest concentration of Novichok was on the front of Navalny’s panties. As she We can only guess: the poison may have been applied there, perhaps it came through urine. When he put on his underwear or when he went to the bathroom, traces of Novichok could have reached Navalny’s hand and from there to the water bottle.
Do you fear acts of revenge?
Not from the government or the authorities. That would only confirm our investigation. However, the individual could He wants to avenge people who have been exposed and now see their careers destroyed. I have to live with this threat. Not just in the short term. Forever.
What will alexe dome Navalny tun?
He will return to Russia. And very soon.
