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“He is building a debt company. Debt is your ‘Saturday’, from the series: give me unlimited debt and change the world. But it means saving on assumptions that do not hold … ”, says Beppe Grillo. “The Green Deal can only be successful with another business model,” echoes Gunter Pauli. When he decided to invite them to a debate in the European Parliament on Europe, the future and the environment, David Sassoli knew who he was inviting: two personalities outside of the classical schemes, to say the least. And indeed, an image emerges that goes beyond the usual limits of political debate, often squeezed between the comforts of government. There, in the EU, both the founder of the M5 and the Belgian entrepreneur founder of the ‘blue economy’, dare to throw fleas into the recovery fund, the jewel in the ‘crown of Europe’ that is fighting the COVID crisis . The founder of the Movement also criticizes representative democracy again, two days after the constitutional referendum.
Grillo defines himself as a “visionary”, takes up environmental theories, the first spark of the Movement, part of the fourth on the sustainable economy and the distorted use of words in the mainstream. He acknowledges the efforts of Ursula von der Leyen to build a green economy, appreciates the “openness” of “one of the Democratic Party” like Sassoli. So he has his opinion. “They talk about growth, but growth is not development,” he stresses. And he takes it out on the system on which the recovery fund is based: public debt. “It is politics that decides – he says – and politics can no longer be absent and in control of the debt. We need to change the development model, but we have a problem: the old ideas don’t want to die ”.
As for the referendum, “when we use it, we use the maximum of democratic expression,” he says. “For me, I contributed to direct democracy, so I no longer believe in a form of parliamentary representation but in direct democracy, made by citizens through referendums, going to vote yes or no to the decrease of parliamentarians is like asking a pacifist ‘are you in favor of war or not?’ “And again:” Less than 50 percent go to elections now, it is a limping democracy. Scenarios such as the lottery are beginning to emerge, why not? Why can’t I select a person with certain characteristics? “
Pauli, also a ‘visionary’ who in the middle of the lockdown was called by Giuseppe Conte as an economic consultant to the government and caused much discussion by a tweet in which he assured that 5g is among the causes of the pandemic, explains his plan ‘zero waste’ . “I am working on a model that generates value because it does not imply waste. You use everything you have available and transform it into added value. But we need a different business model that will depend on the needs of each territory ”.
Grillo calls for “state intervention in the economy”, Pauli affirms that he is not “for or against capitalism or communism”. I am in favor of an economy that responds to the needs of society and creates jobs while respecting the environment ”. And then he attacks tax havens: “American multinationals take our data without even paying taxes. For me, tax havens are a desert ”.
“It is true that in recent years growth has shown limits because it has not proven to be for everyone”, Sassoli responds. But now we have the goal of making Europe a ‘zero emissions’ neutral continent and we must make all our efforts converge towards that goal. A new business model can emerge from the conscience of Europe: we have to start from the green agreement for a new development model ”. But the president defends the recovery fund: “We will produce debt but we will give new opportunities to future generations.”
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