“A political trial, there is no crime” – Libero Quotidiano

On the day of the preliminary hearing of the Gregoretti trial with Matteo Salvini, we once again propose the interview with Carlo Nordio, by Pietro Senaldi, published on Free on January 13.

Even when I was in business, as a lawyer, Carlo Nordio he has always been a sui generis magistrate, more attentive to the reasons of substantial justice than to those of category. As an inquisitor of even excellent defendants, he has never sought the center of media attention and has always avoided any temptation of a political career, both in the judiciary and in Parliament, although he certainly did not lack opportunities. Today, retired, he is perhaps the most free, liberal and authoritative voice that exists on the subject of justice.

If you were still at work, would you have investigated Salvini for kidnapping for preventing the Gregoretti refugees from disembarking for four days?
“According to the Public Ministry of Catania, the investigation should have been closed because the hypothesis of the crime does not exist. I share “.

Was Salvini really acting within his powers as a minister?
“This is obvious, otherwise he would not have been investigated for a ministerial crime. In reality, the issues that matter are two: whether the crime is conceivable and, if so, whether it was committed to protect a state interest ”.

Let’s start with the first …
«The Prosecutor’s Office has already expressed itself, saying that the crime does not exist in its materiality. Keeping people on board a ship with all the necessary assistance for a couple of days is difficult to qualify as kidnapping. So much so that the reduction of the stay in Gregoretti, as opposed to the two weeks that the refugees spent in the Diciotti, is the basis for the different assessment of the Catania Prosecutor, who in one case recognized the details of the kidnapping and in the another does not. I do not know on the basis of what considerations the court of ministers has neglected the guidance of the magistrates.

We come to the second decisive question: did Salvini act to protect the national interest?
“Here, too, the prosecutors have already given the answer, and since the Diciotti case, when the Public Ministry, recognizing the material details of the kidnapping crime, requested the closing of the process, considering that Salvini had acted in the context of his own powers and, therefore, Therefore, it is in the interest of the country. This is a trial of high political responsibility, not criminal guilt and when a national interest is recognized, Parliament must deny authorization to proceed. This is a guarantee provided by a constitutional law, and is attributed the position, not the person, who cannot even resign him. Therefore, I think it would be correct for Parliament to deny authorization to proceed against the leader of the Northern League. “

Salvini was acquitted by his fellow senators by Diciotti but may be condemned by Gregoretti: however, is the possible criminal conduct not identical, or at least it does not respond to the same possible criminal design?
The two cases are politically similar, because they represent the government’s political will to limit landings, so much so that in Diciotti’s case the decision was officially collegiate, and if Salvini had been tried, Conte, Di Maio would have had it too to try. and Toninelli. But there the Catania Prosecutor, instead of ruling on the existence of the crime, had invoked the exercise of a discretionary power of the minister, therefore a kind of excuse. In the Gregoretti case, on the contrary, the prosecutor said that the crime does not exist and therefore, if Salvini were sent to trial, paradoxically, the prosecutor should begin by immediately requesting his acquittal, in line with his previous conclusions ”.

Conte indicted himself in the Diciotti case, while in the Gregoretti case he indicted his former minister by stating that the specific issue was never discussed in the cabinet. But is it such a decisive fact?
“I don’t think there was an official and collegiate government resolution even in the Diciotti case, where however Conte and Di Maio had stated that they agreed with Salvini’s decision anyway. For Gregoretti the versions differ, Salvini says that they agreed, they deny it. But this is of relative importance, because it is obvious that all of us, both the government and the readers, were aware of the minister’s veto on the immediate landing. The question is whether this knowledge required the Prime Minister to prevent what, hypothetically, was a crime. From a constitutional point of view it is a big problem if the prime minister has the power and the duty to block a criminal decision of one of his ministers ”.

And if this duty-power existed, how plausible given that the Constitution gives the Prime Minister the power to direct government policy?
“If the answer is positive, Conte should be investigated with Salvini, because article 40 of the penal code is very clear: not preventing an event that one has a duty to prevent is equivalent to causing it. In any case, political co-responsibility is there: if he had been against it, Conte would at least have had to officially dissociate himself ».

Why do you think the majority of Italians are with Salvini about it: for political reasons, because the accusation is funny, or because the majority are against illegal immigration?
«I believe for all three reasons, although more than comic I would define the accusatory thesis as daring. But beware, it is not the thesis of the prosecutor, but of the court of ministers ”.

Do you think that after Salvini’s commitment to the Viminale the situation of illegal immigration in Italy has improved?
“Salvini’s work had already been started by Minniti, and the current Minister Lamorgese is acting with great professionalism. But certainly with Salvini the problem was also brought to the European level, and that counted a lot, although it cost us the hostility of some nations accustomed to considering Italy as a cowardly and permissive country ».

Could it be a boomerang for the left to test Salvini?
“The risk is there, since they want to postpone the decision after the January elections. Another paradoxical aspect of this story.

Is the against Salvini a political process?
“That in the Giunta and in the Senate is, by definition, a political process.”