‘What else do you expect with a leader like Rahul Gandhi?’ Pralhad Joshi on MP’s ‘misconduct’ for farm laws
With a stern look at the chaos that broke out in Parliament during the passage of agricultural bills on September 20, Parliamentary Affairs Minister Pralhad Joshi criticized Congress, calling the incident “a stain on the conduct of the opposition”. In an interview with CNN-News18, Joshi talks about MPs’ misconduct and the fall of Congress and says the NDA had numbers early on to pass the bill. Edited excerpts:
What is your opinion on the misconduct of MPs in Parliament during the passage of controversial agricultural laws on September 20? The Speaker of the House, Vice President M Venkaiah Naidu, said they “tarnished” the image of the House of the Elders.
The incident was clearly a stain on the conduct of the Opposition. The way the Congress and the parties behaved that day … it is clearly a black day in the history of Indian democracy. The way MPs behaved towards Rajya Sabha Vice President Harivansh shows their utter frustration, shows that they do not respect any position or institution. They knew they couldn’t attack the government, so they chose to target it. Harivansh took a position to tell them to go to their seats. It was not good for the big game to do this, it was an instinctive reaction. They made a movement of distrust without realizing that one needs to move the movement for it … it showed that they were shaken.
Why did you rush the session?
The proposal to reduce the session came from the deputies of the opposition parties. I don’t want to take any names, but if you ask them in private without quoting them, they will agree. Several opposition leaders told us that they were ready to sit beyond the stipulated time to finish the job and were largely in favor of reducing the session.
Opposition leaders have claimed that he passed the bill amid uproar because he realized the numbers were not in his favor.
This is a flagrant mistake by the opposition parties. NDA numbers were over 100 that day at Rajya Sabha. The opposition was no more than 75, BJP had 82 of the 86 MPs present, four were absent, including the vacancy created due to the death of Ashok Gasti. We had our ally JDU who had three out of five deputies present. AIADMK has nine deputies, of whom four were present. The YSRCP also supported us… out of six of its members, five were present for the bill. Two PDP MPs and a TDP MP were going to support us. Also, with the support of smaller parties along with independent members and nominees, we had another 15 MPS in support.
If you look at Congress and the TMC, they both had a lot of deputies missing from the proceedings that day. Out of 40, only 28 MPS from Congress were present. This includes 10 who had excused themselves throughout the session. The TMC had a total of only five of the 13 MPs. Six of DMK MPs were present and the TRS had a strength of four of seven MPS. If we add other parties like SP, RJD, AAP, NCP, Shiv Sena, IUML and others, the strength of the opposition deputies still would not have crossed 70 that day. Leaders such as Sharad Pawar were absent and both NCP and Shiv Sena withdrew after discussion of the bill.
I myself do not make these claims; these numbers are from the attendance record for that day. Parties like the BJD wanted the bill sent to the selection committee and they may not have even then voted against it. Assuming they would have supported the Opposition, it still wouldn’t have come close to our numbers. The nine BJD MPs supporting the Opposition would still have brought the number to no more than 80. They called in their MPs from the galleries and other chambers to meet in the rgw Rajya Sabha chamber to create this kind of scenario. Our people were quiet because we knew the numbers were with us. Creating uproar in the House is something else, the Opposition must realize that the mandate is clearly with the NDA.
Eight bills were passed in two days without opposition. Is that justified?
We did not ask the Opposition to boycott the session. Nor did we ask them to leave the house. Furthermore, everyone knew the fact that these bills, which were ordinances, had to be passed. It was discussed extensively in our interactions with the Opposition and also in the business advisory committee. We didn’t throw any surprises at them by bringing the Bills in all of a sudden.
The Opposition has also affirmed that the days of dialogue and discussion are over. Do you think that Parliament has now become a place of autocracy?
This is yet another lie. We had a discussion with the leaders of Congress and we told people like Jairam Ramesh that we would like to finish the discussion and approval of the bill on the same day, and we told them that we may need to extend the House times by an hour or so. So all these statements, such as “a consensus was not sought to expand the Chamber,” are false.
In addition, the Congress party must be in the minutes to explain why it insisted that we bring this bill only on Monday and not Sunday. They gave us various excuses, including that if it was Monday, one of their members, Deepender Hooda, would test negative for Covid-19 and possibly be available.
Is a party like Congress, which has been in power for so long, expected to behave that way?
Congress has been in power much longer than we have, but the way their conduct has gone shows that they have lost their balance. What else do you expect when you have a leader like Rahul Gandhi? Any democracy can prosper with strong opposition, but it seems that Congress is nothing serious. I don’t want to talk about anyone’s health … we all know that the president of Congress, Sonia Gandhi, had to travel abroad for health reasons. But if Rahul Gandhi was so serious, why did he miss the entire session of Parliament? Those who have no faith in Gandhi’s principles are sitting in front of the Gandhi statue in protest against the orders of the nakli (false) Gandhis.
Did you not agree to discuss and submit some bills for further parliamentary scrutiny? None of that was witnessed. What do you think was the reason?
We had several meetings, including the BAC and an informal meeting, for almost three hours. They came back and wanted to send the ordinance to a select committee. Where is the logic in that? Why would we bring an ordinance if it wasn’t urgent enough?
After so much bitterness between both parties, do you think there is scope for you to start a dialogue again?
As a government, we will continue to speak with them and keep the chain of dialogue open. Furthermore, the Opposition needs to know that the Narendra Modi government came to power in 2019 with the blessing of the people and with a larger mandate than last time. We will work for people and their interests. Any attempt to blockade will further sink the Opposition.
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