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Kovidők’s Facebook page, featuring excellent professional materials, put the most famous Hungarian virologists and immunologists in a virtual space. Virologist Gábor Kemenesi, immunologist Ernő Duda, virologist Miklós Rusvai and dr. Virologist Sándor Tóth also accepted the Facebook live chat invitation on Friday night. You could listen to the cream of the trade for an hour. “Thanks” to Covid, we found ourselves in the middle of a scientific conference that we wouldn’t have known about as laymen anyway, so we were able to bathe in high-level resolutions.
The organizers asked four questions and the researchers were able to answer them in four rounds. The first sounded like this:
Do you recommend vaccination?
In this, the unit was complete, the four guests said that the more we know about the disease, the complications, the more certain that any approved vaccine is better than contracting the virus. Ernő Duda sees this as proof of what he hears about from pediatricians. According to them, it is not a day in which they do not meet children who did not know that they were covids, but weeks or months later they developed a multi-organ disease called Kawasaki-like syndrome.
Miklós Rusvai, defending the vaccine, explained that the fact that the Earth’s population had grown so much was due to mandatory vaccinations.
Up to age 20, people receive 12 mandatory vaccinations here in Hungary, and they are not very different against coronavirus.
Sándor Tóth believes that the risk of vaccines is much lower than what is in the public consciousness. Vaccination is particularly important due to the development of complications from the virus, as ‘Long-term Covid’, a long-lasting complication, is a serious condition that complicates daily life. The virus manipulates the immune system, but the vaccine prepares our immune system for it.
Here’s the second question: are there more vaccines in development or have they already been licensed, what kind of vaccine is better?
Ernő Duda said that the coronavirus also carries a professional gene: 3, which turns off the primary immune response, this is the so-called interferon reaction. In addition, it carries many molecular patterns that match the pattern of cells transported in the body, so it can remain “hidden” and even force the immune system to destroy its own cells. For this reason, according to the Szeged professor, the less virus in the vaccine, the better. The mRNA vaccine is such that it contains only a packaged RNA, not a killed virus or vector virus. In his opinion, vector vaccines, protein subunit vaccines, and mRNA vaccines are the best.
Gábor Kemenesi, who works in the Pécs laboratory, does not consider himself lucky to categorize vaccines, it depends on many things where it will be worth injecting. For mutations, high antigen vaccines are well included. Because the inactivated virus-based vaccine contains a non-functional virus, he does not see a serious risk in its use.
The RNA-based ones are the best, the second is inactivated, the third is vector-based, Professor Rusvai said, but noted that in the case of vector vaccines containing human adenovirus, it is important that
the majority of the European population has a neutralizing antibody, so it may not be the most effective in all cases. Therefore, the AstraZeneca vaccine containing chimpanzee adenovirus appears to be more preferred.
Sándor Tóth finished the vaccine containing the killed virus first (such as the Chinese Sinopharmé), which provides the greatest protection against fleeing viruses. Second, he indicated a vaccine containing m-RNA and thirdly, a vaccine containing chimpanzee adenovirus.
Ernő Duda disagreed that the inactivated virus cannot cause complications, as antilipids can be produced during the immune response, which can even lead to blood clotting. There is little chance of the problem developing, but it does. In response to this, Sándor Tóth said that he knew many post-covid patients, but had not yet encountered a blood clotting problem.
The third question was: What side effects should be expected during vaccination? Is there a disease that is not worth vaccinating?
Sándor Tóth listed five types of side effects, or rather an unwanted vaccination reaction. There are two preventable components in the vaccine. The third involves the activation of the immune system. The fourth group is the reaction associated with the administration of the vaccine, such as pain at the injection site, redness, and psychological reactions. The fifth is not a side effect either: there are some complications around the injection that we detect with the vaccine.
Ernő Duda said that these reactions actually develop through the stimulation of the immune system, not even side effects, it is good if they appear, because it indicates the effectiveness of the vaccine.
He gave a special example from the Pfizer vaccine: the anaphylactoid, a very serious allergic reaction, can occur very rarely (100,000 / 1 person), but your doctor can do it on the spot. It can occur in severe asthmatics.
Gábor Kemenesi, spiced up with some humor, said that the “user experience” of vaccines is good for now, but it is always worth putting ourselves in a scientific context in the case of side effects. Miklós Rusvai added that many people see the immune response, which is considered normal, as a serious side effect, if, for example, they have a headache or arm pain at the injection site for two days, which is not common. for them. although he is a doctor.
Finally, the last question: what licensing processes do professionals see as the ideal condition to use a vaccine?
Ernő Duda drew a clear line regarding Eastern and Western-type thinking about the use of the vaccine.
While, according to the Western approach, the most vulnerable, health professionals rank first in the order of vaccination, in China, workers so as not to collapse the economy.
The Eastern attitude, he says, looks like people are going to die while I mess with clinical trials. In the West, on the other hand, regardless of mortality rates, it can only be considered a completely safe and clinically proven vaccine.
I don’t know what the best approach is, but after what we’ve been through, the West will think about whether the phases of clinical trials should be organized according to the current protocol.
Most companies have already merged two of the 3 phases. Additionally, the approval authority was able to keep track of the documents summarizing the results during the phases, without having to wait for the entire 10,000-page test material as ordered above.
Gábor Kemenesi was also brief here: according to him, based on the solid objectivity of science, let’s also look at this topic.
Sándor Tóth, on the other hand, was “exposing”.
We in Western culture are a bit of a paper fetishist in all walks of life. If I have a license, there is no question from the police officer. The situation is similar with the vaccine.
He noted that in Hungary we comply with the US FDA and the European EMA among world pharmaceutical authorities, and we act accordingly. At the end of the conversation, he made one of the most important messages of the evening:
I ask everyone not to confuse the need for health with politics! When we talk about the epidemic, let’s finally forget about politics!
Finally, he pointed out that an American m-RNA-based nasal drop vaccine is already in an advanced state, but we don’t yet know how it works, but it may be the vaccine of the future.
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