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For more than 80 months at the helm of the auditor general’s office, Kimi Makwetu has been eager to see his sons play cricket, visit his home in Cofimvaba, and take a break from all the irregular, wasteful and fruitless spending. However, you know it will be for a short time, because your ancestors will not allow you to simply retire while there is much more work to do.
Why haven’t we had an open access meeting before? Were you afraid of the questions I would ask you?
Of course, no. I’ve told my team that I don’t want to be like Michael Jackson, to the point where all the channels that people turn to, there I am. Remember when that song came out, he was on every channel, singing bede bede [beat it, beat it]. I don’t want to be that person. I’d rather turn in my reports and go back to the shadows and do my job. There is a lot of that.
After about 84 months on the job, what has stuck with you?
Around 2013, we could see that there was a certain level of financial discipline with the measures instituted by the treasury and the work that the auditor general’s office was doing. The system was not good, but there were processes in place; we had evaluation tools and we could track a lot of what was happening.
It was scary to see how this changed. Supervisory systems were being reversed so quickly and supervision was retreating rapidly. Huge amounts of money were leaking out. This happened in a very short period. Money was being distributed to third parties that had nothing to do with the state or suppliers.
Are you referring to contracts like Peace dairy in the Free State and Giyani Water?
For example, the asbestos project. People came to check the houses and all they did was look over the roof and then they got into their cars and drove off. This was the level to which the audit processes had regressed. People were paid millions here.
How do you stop this? Civil society has become more upset every time it presents its findings because it is the same story of lost or lost money.
In 2009, 2010 and 2011 was the age of persuasion, when [former auditor general Terrence] Nombembe visited all the provinces in the hope of instilling responsibility. When I attended these meetings, it could be seen that some of the presentations were simply rehearsals. People were told to say this and that.
In the early years, the team and I realized that we needed to mix persuasion with something else, like legal ramifications.
Hence, we embarked on the amendments to the Public Audit Law. We had to show Parliament over a period of three years that the results were getting worse. There were increasing levels of irregular spending. Year after year, the results deteriorated and we couldn’t keep seeing this happen. Accountants now know that if they don’t address supervisory issues, it will hit their own pockets. It’s using the law with a little persuasion.
His language in the way he describes the looting has evolved over the years. You are more frank and direct: Why?
It takes time to discover our ignorance. I have learned that I do not speak only to accountants or economists when I submit results. So I can’t use jargon to describe the cheeky behavior we see in the entities we audit. The language has to be understood by that man who opens a tap and no water comes out. Those are the people affected by the irregularities in the Vhembe district and they also need to understand what I am saying.
My language has changed over the years due to the strengthening I receive from civil society. I felt like I wasn’t just screaming here, there were many other voices, some not so loud, but they were there.
Various high-profile arrests have occurred and there will be more in the coming months. For years, his team has published reports on processes that were not followed when awarding some of these tenders. Did you think this would ever happen?
Those who are held accountable right now feel that arrests are what is needed.
Our reports are very clear on what should happen, based on what we have found. There must be consequences. The arrests are the culmination of things, including the work of law enforcement. And, naturally, this is how it should work: that we do our bit and highlight these irregularities and that law enforcement teams carry out more investigations and arrests. If you need us to clear up a problem, we will.
One thing we found in some of these contracts was that they are long term. We, for example, realized that the contract award was flawed in the first place and anything else that follows is compromised. Many of these contracts usually have many extensions, variations and balloon. [payments].
There are many bureaucratic procedures to hold perpetrators who divert state accounts to account: Why?
Laws of natural justice. We cannot accelerate any of these processes. Once someone takes you to court, because you have all sorts of rights, we must show that we gave you enough time to respond to the concerns we raised before issuing you a certificate of debt. The current amendments have a collective subtlety, [through which they] insist on holding [people] explicable.
For retirement, can you imagine buying a farm in Magoeboeskloof?
Life has been tough in the tropics, but what kept us going was the good weather we had. So now I will enjoy the good weather.
I will continue to be involved in the sector in various ways. Much work remains to be done. If I just went home and retired, my ancestors would call and tell me to go back to work. I need to keep doing what I can while I can.
However, I first need to claim some space for myself. The auditor general’s job has taken me 84 months of my life and, to be honest, it’s been quite a busy schedule.
In two months, time is up. Are you sad, are you relieved, and what would be your advice to your successor?
Nombembe told me to always make sure my eyes are focused on office independence. This is key in everything we do. Furthermore, the professional competence of the team must never be undermined.
As the auditor general sitting on top, you are alone. You don’t have a committee – it’s all up to you, so I would advise the incoming incumbent to make sure they have enough confidence in the team. You should try to be as independent as possible. Most importantly, you must appear independent at all times. It helps you sleep much better at night.
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